What did M's sound engineering team do differently with IGTYS, CT vs S&S, MDNA, RH, MX live albums?

[Blue Jean 16,852]

7 minutes ago, drownedworld said:

The worst is Madame X, it sounds like recorded with an average phone

I wonder the same and also i think her best concert (picture) editing is Sticky and Sweet Tour

Putting the fake vocals aside the editing of Sticky is superb. The way a live concert should be. I think after that is when they started over editing everything. MDNA and Rebel Heart are truly the worst with all the filtering and slow motion. I feel they listened to that feedback as Madame X, while not perfect was a vast improvement.

7 minutes ago, drownedworld said:

I REALLY wish the team who edited Taylor Swift's Reputation Tour edited Madonna's concerts. i'd even like her to make that happen now, a re-release of her tours, completely and newly re-edited by people who truly know how to edit enjoyable concerts

They will never go back and re-edit them though. Madonna spent months personally working on the edits of the last 3 tours so it’s obviously the way she wanted them. Our best hope is that more alternative shows/edits leak, like MDNA in Paris for example.

[drownedworld 576]

8 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

Madonna spent months personally working on the edits of the last 3 tours so it’s obviously the way she wanted them

Maybe that's the problem haha, Madonna is so insecure that she doesn't let the editors do their job the way they want, but honestly at least we deserve a Blond Ambition release, now that she found the masters, and yes more stuff, it would be even better if all the material of the concerts leaked, fans would edit everything way better, just like that guy on YouTube 'Dan K' who remasters her videos and movies on 4K and look beyond E P I C

[Blue Jean 16,852]

39 minutes ago, drownedworld said:

Maybe that's the problem haha, Madonna is so insecure that she doesn't let the editors do their job the way they want

I don’t think she’s insecure. It happened after she became involved in film directing, the concert “films” started becoming more and more over edited. Fans really just want to see the show as it was though.

[wtg1987 10,618]

1 hour ago, drownedworld said:

Maybe that's the problem haha, Madonna is so insecure that she doesn't let the editors do their job the way they want, but honestly at least we deserve a Blond Ambition release, now that she found the masters, and yes more stuff, it would be even better if all the material of the concerts leaked, fans would edit everything way better, just like that guy on YouTube 'Dan K' who remasters her videos and movies on 4K and look beyond E P I C

did she find the BA masters though - thats news to me - she still emphatically states they never recorded the whole paris show so she cant release a full high definition shot on film release ? i dont why they cant release the other shows in the highest quality - i would rather that than nothing - same for wtg japan, gs japan and virgin tour. thats why the prince re-issues are so good - they include both audio and video - yes i know im going off topic here too ...

[Blue Jean 16,852]

23 minutes ago, wtg1987 said:

did she find the BA masters though - thats news to me - she still emphatically states they never recorded the whole paris show so she cant release a full high definition shot on film release ? i dont why they cant release the other shows in the highest quality - i would rather that than nothing - same for wtg japan, gs japan and virgin tour. thats why the prince re-issues are so good - they include both audio and video - yes i know im going off topic here too ...

The Prince reissues are good, until you see the price and realise you can’t afford to buy a whole $700 box set just for 1 dvd.

Regarding BAT, I believe she posted a pic of TOD reels on insta but I don’t think that means it was the full Paris show or that she will be doing anything with that footage anytime soon.

I also would never expect proper releases of any of the Japan shows. At best they will upscale the already released versions of those early tours and release them to streaming or on YouTube. Or maybe include them with the promised boxsets if those ever happen. There is simply no market for music DVD’s or Bluray’s these days. They did not even do a physical of Madame X.

 

[drownedworld 576]

3 hours ago, wtg1987 said:

did she find the BA masters though - thats news to me

Yes she found the BA masters and also Truth or Dare masters of the filmings, this means she found hours and hours of scenes which never made it on the final movie, she posted a picture like 3 years ago, i didn't know that about Prince, i love him, i'll search his concerts

[Cyber-Raga 311]

Has she bought back the rights to TOD? She did sell them in 1991 and then complained in 2004 when she was editing IGTTYAS that she had to ask for permission and actually pay for the snippet from TOD which we saw in IGTTYAS...

[Scottyx 9,216]

They wore socks, where in the past they wore naked feet in loafers. Really makes a difference to the sound.

[Andymad 10,738]

I just know that if this health scare sparks a new documentary out of her, we aint getting a live Celebration Tour dvd

[RUADJAI 15,887]

Not thinking ahead. No attention to detail. Over editing without objectivity. Thinking you can get your friends to put out the same quality as top tier artists (Akerlund, Stuart Price) and then trying to fix everything at the end that wasn't done properly. 

 

[cosmic_system 3,380]

2 hours ago, drownedworld said:

Yes she found the BA masters and also Truth or Dare masters of the filmings, this means she found hours and hours of scenes which never made it on the final movie, she posted a picture like 3 years ago, i didn't know that about Prince, i love him, i'll search his concerts

 

She didn’t? What she posted were just reels or whatever they are called of the film. Alek himself said the masters with the unreleased stuff was lost and himself said the full Paris show was never filmed  since he already knew at the point of the tour what he wanted to film. And that’s why they went with Nice for HBO.

It’s all here

https://youtu.be/dFLNOBKWlds?si=WeeOeq8iDORvLn53

[cosmic_system 3,380]

Her worst live recording is MDNA. The sound is all over the place with the voice volume pushed too high and the instrumentation buried with the fake audience. It sounds like karaoke. 
Rebel Heart is..ok I guess, but the editing of the live album is horrible and the cut most of the transitions.  
Madame X is has a great sound, and it’s without questions her best live recording since Confessions. 

[vesalii 1,365]

I do think IGTTAS and CT were the best live productions ever! S&S was awful, bad dubbed, weird mixes such as Borderline with heavy edited vocals that make her sound like a teenager with that weird out of tune “Lala” ending part. MDNA with the excessive crowd sound and her voice out of tune, Madame X is the worst one, with her long boring speeches, jokes that ever land and pretty much boring arrangements by Kevin Antunes 🙄

[madgic2005 105]

11 hours ago, MCL_1993 said:

Although, Kylie Dean who sang most of M's parts for the SST 2009 blended perfectly with M's tired vocals.

Wow, never knew this until today! Did she tour with M or were her recordings done in the studios?

[MCL_1993 2,022]

She toured with her and carried a lot of the backing for choruses during the 2nd leg of the SST. During the 2008 leg, pre-recorded or even studio vocals were used more prominently. During both runs, the girls were part of the crew. Nicki richards provided a lot of ad-libs and harmonies and Kylie sang along Madonna's lead vocal

[ChrisK 8,911]

4 minutes ago, MCL_1993 said:

She toured with her and carried a lot of the backing for choruses during the 2nd leg of the SST. During the 2008 leg, pre-recorded or even studio vocals were used more prominently. During both runs, the girls were part of the crew. Nicki richards provided a lot of ad-libs and harmonies and Kylie sang along Madonna's lead vocal

so interesting, thanks for sharing this info!

[drownedworld 576]

14 hours ago, cosmic_system said:

 

Alek himself said the masters with the unreleased stuff was lost

It’s all here

https://youtu.be/dFLNOBKWlds?si=WeeOeq8iDORvLn53

That was 6 years ago, they found them like 3 years ago

she even uploaded a video of them on Instagram Reels, some of the tapes no longer have a visible title of how old they are

I hope she do something with those tapes soon, i remember in some interview Alek said that they didn’t record the whole concert, just some acts, i expect not just a blond ambition mini concert or whatever they filmed but also a Truth or Dare expansion, something special for the true fans with deleted scenes and maybe show unreleased pictures too, an interview to Madonna just about that era

 

 

 

[cosmic_system 3,380]

1 hour ago, drownedworld said:

That was 6 years ago, they found them like 3 years ago

she even uploaded a video of them on Instagram Reels, some of the tapes no longer have a visible title of how old they are

I hope she do something with those tapes soon, i remember in some interview Alek said that they didn’t record the whole concert, just some acts, i expect not just a blond ambition mini concert or whatever they filmed but also a Truth or Dare expansion, something special for the true fans with deleted scenes and maybe show unreleased pictures too, an interview to Madonna just about that era

 

 

 

She showed the same reels when she first visited her archives years ago. But it’s just the film. She also said on the Instagram live with Diablo she couldn’t find the Blond Ambition masters. 
When did she said they found them?
Alek said they didn’t film the whole concert in the Moma interview I posted. 

[Blue Jean 16,852]

That explains why she can't find it  Call off the search party.

[MDNA22 1,268]

DWT, RIT and Confessions DVD's she sounded great thanks to Stuart being the musical director. He is so talented and knows just how to get it right so she sounds great in tune and still live/not overdubbed. He mixed the sound too for the Live8 release and think everything official until S&S and Kevin Antunes took the role of Musical Director

[Blue Jean 16,852]

50 minutes ago, MDNA22 said:

DWT, RIT and Confessions DVD's she sounded great thanks to Stuart being the musical director. He is so talented and knows just how to get it right so she sounds great in tune and still live/not overdubbed. He mixed the sound too for the Live8 release and think everything official until S&S and Kevin Antunes took the role of Musical Director

Wasn’t live 8 broadcast live though?

[cosmic_system 3,380]

11 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

Wasn’t live 8 broadcast live though?

Yes 

[migsou 1,109]

the fact that the live albums don't sound good is not the musical director's (FOR THE FUCKING CONCERT) fault. is it that difficult for people to understand that these are two very different things, even from an artistic point of view?

[scion 3,135]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:00 PM, Blue Jean said:

I don’t think she’s insecure. It happened after she became involved in film directing, the concert “films” started becoming more and more over edited. Fans really just want to see the show as it was though.

Completely disagree - even quick uploads have suffered the fast correction on her YouTube channel. Hard Candy @ Roseland was quickly post produced to feature tweaked vocals, Eurovision was seemingly dubbed within 24 hours... Let's face it, how Madonna wants to be documented as a vocalist is not anywhere near the truth of how Madonna actually actually is as a vocalist. 

In some ways I'm surprised she sings live in her concerts, because it's obviously a fair issue for her... Hence the way each tour seems to feature either a heavier backing track than the last since 2008, or an entirely processed 'live' vocal (MXT).

[RUADJAI 15,887]

4 hours ago, migsou said:

the fact that the live albums don't sound good is not the musical director's (FOR THE FUCKING CONCERT) fault. is it that difficult for people to understand that these are two very different things, even from an artistic point of view?

If you read the interview snippet above you will see Kevin talking about the post production process and the issues present when blending different vocal takes. 

On 8/25/2023 at 4:17 AM, MCL_1993 said:

“You know, I didn't really have a say in that. I approached it in a similar fashion as Stuart did with the previous tours. I took a good vocal performance and mixed it with the soundboard from Argentina but we quickly ran into the issue of her being out of tune a lot during those shows. You need to understand that we were almost at the end of the tour and Madonna's voice wasn't getting enough rest during the south american dates. So, we decided to pitch her up a little to mix better with the rehearsal takes. Then when the label reviewed it, Madonna's tour director requested a clean-up of all the instrumentals we recorded during filming of the footage in Buenos Aires. It was very unfortunate because after that clean-up, everything sounded more studio-esque, which apparently, Madonna aimed for. With our PA system, it was very easy to work on that tour because our sound was very consistent across the board. If we didn't run into issues with the venue or technical stuff screwing us over - which rarely happened, anyway- the show in Berlin would sound just as good as the show in Los Angeles, for instance. I also did a version of the soundboard using stems from shows in which she gave good vocal performances and played it to her but she didn't like it very much. So, at the end of the day, a more artificial sound was preferred over a more rough mix. Sadly, for the audience noise, I had to use stock recordings to get it right sometimes. “

So... I think the idea that Madonna is rich and has a separate person for every single job is the misconception. 

This interview proves that Kevin was responsible, at least partly so, for presenting to her a finalized sound for the tour film at least a few times. He admits right there to pitching her vocal up to blend with other more in tune vocals. The fact that he says "pitch her up" is a red flag. Autotune is known for the robotic sound, but it is mostly used in a way that is very transparent and corrects pitch without altering the tone of ones voice. Most vocals you hear are autotuned now a days... He obviously didn't do that. He took the recording and pitched it up... which takes the sound file and speeds it up while simultaneously stretching it out creating an unnatural sound. Think of tik tok trends where you speed up the music and it gets higher pitch but then simultaneously stretching it so it doesn't get faster than the original. Anyone who works on music would have just slapped autotune on and called it a day. (minus the screaming parts cuz they are mostly not musical) 

What happened in Human Nature on Sticky & Sweet is clearly they corrected the main vocal and ignored/forgot about the vocal delay that is still her uncorrected vocal. How that MAJOR detail made it to the final project is insane to me. It sounds just horrible. Off key can be cool and punk rock and showcase maybe how physical one is being.... Even vocal doubling.... in the studio or live with Donna or that other girl in more recent years.... one of the vocals should be slightly off for it to sound good and thick...but these vocal discrepancies are off key in a non musical way... 

I know this may come across as arrogant, but if I was working with her and she decided to re record her vocals for the project... even for recording vocals for the songs she mimes... I would suggest she do a quick 30 minute workout first. Get her energy up, tire her out a little bit, and THEN record the vocals. You also gotta use the same mic (which is usually different than studio mics) and have her hold the microphone instead of having it on a stand so you get more realistic distances from her mouth to the mic. 

 

I think it's also worth noting that 2006 was the year she formed Semtex Films... so you can deduce what you want from that.