Very honestly, has Taylor Swift surpassed Madonna all-around?

[LongIslandTea 1,891]

The ultimate test would be: what will happen when she hits 40s?

Her fans will grow up one day as well and focus on something more important in life.

Also, there's always someone new in the scene every year.

Another new Madonna would emerge.

[littlestartman 181]

You cant compare how music is consumed now.

Nobody was counting how many times someone you play the Like  Prayer LP but with streaming every play counts so each fan easily plays an album worth if streams every 2/3 weeks.

The touring industry is at its peak post Covid and her Tour is huge for the most basic people on earth and young girls. Nowadays anyone can buy a ticket online wether even during the S&S days ticketmaster wasnt as reliable + inlfation all concerts are double/triple the price of 10/15 years ago

[stevemic 267]

No.

[luckypierre78 308]

On 9/12/2024 at 11:18 AM, Enrico said:

It's funny cause the press is  pumping her all over and talking about her almost everywhere, but nobody who is over 25 can name or sing any of her songs.

She may win a lot of now useless VMAS awards (is Mtv still a thing?), she may have million of streams, but she has very little impact on music and culture.

I think the thing that reminds me most of Madonna's success is all those girls trying to dress like her. I was in London in August and the trains were full of this new generation of "wannabes".  Still, dressing as Madonna was almost a rebel move, this look is just superficial, glittery and conformist.

I'm a 40 year old gay man and I know every Taylor Swift album except her self titled.  I think a lot of you have your heads stuck in the sand if your idea of Taylor Swift's music is "teeny bopper" and you're talking about Shake It Off.  That song is almost a decade old and if going by total stream count is only her FIFTH most popular song.  The string of Folklore/Evermore/Midnights/The Tortured Poets Department have most people in the music industry praising her songwriting ability.  Adele, Billy Joel, Carole King, Stevie Nicks, Ringo Starr, Bruce Springsteen, Phoebe Bridgers, Olivia Rodrigo, Jon Bon Jovi, and Dolly Parton have all praised her songwriting.  Taylor might not write songs that you specifically like to listen to, but to discredit her songwriting ability is basically saying some of the people known for being the best lyricists of all time have no idea what they're talking about.

Multiple women can make good music.  It's ok.

[androiduser 2,891]

59 minutes ago, littlestartman said:

You cant compare how music is consumed now.

 

yes, but it's the same for every artist, yet only Taylor achieved the success that she did... of course, every artist is a product of their own time

[littlestartman 181]

1 hour ago, androiduser said:

yes, but it's the same for every artist, yet only Taylor achieved the success that she did... of course, every artist is a product of their own time

Im sure Drake also surpassed MJ in terms of charts. Its not the same for every artist. Its easier nowadays with streaming and algorithms the rules are different you are alble to chart with non singles etc. The way charts and sucess is measured is not the same.

[androiduser 2,891]

4 minutes ago, littlestartman said:

Im sure Drake also surpassed MJ in terms of charts. Its not the same for every artist. Its easier nowadays with streaming and algorithms the rules are different you are alble to chart with non singles etc. The way charts and sucess is measured is not the same.

maybe, but he hasn't surpassed him in touring numbers etc. With Taylor, it's not just the charts.

[littlestartman 181]

22 minutes ago, androiduser said:

maybe, but he hasn't surpassed him in touring numbers etc. With Taylor, it's not just the charts.

Exactly all you are talking is numbers and records who are naturally broken as the music market evolved.

Back in 2006 only Madonna and U2 charged more than 300 per ticket but now Charlie xcx can charge that.

[Redha DBL 7,864]

2 hours ago, littlestartman said:

You cant compare how music is consumed now.

Nobody was counting how many times someone you play the Like  Prayer LP but with streaming every play counts 

THIS THIS AND THIS !!! That should be tatooed on every newborn baby of the world. For fuck sake, how long are we gonna make stupid comparisons when it's just NOT COMPARABLE.

[JessicaRabbit 5]

The answer to this this thread is NO.  

 

[androiduser 2,891]

27 minutes ago, littlestartman said:

Exactly all you are talking is numbers and records who are naturally broken as the music market evolved.

Back in 2006 only Madonna and U2 charged more than 300 per ticket but now Charlie xcx can charge that.

and, yes, Charlie xcx doesn't break anyone's old record

[androiduser 2,891]

13 minutes ago, Redha DBL said:

THIS THIS AND THIS !!! That should be tatooed on every newborn baby of the world. For fuck sake, how long are we gonna make stupid comparisons when it's just NOT COMPARABLE.

stadiums are comparable

[littlestartman 181]

9 minutes ago, androiduser said:

stadiums are comparable

 

10 minutes ago, androiduser said:

and, yes, Charlie xcx doesn't break anyone's old record

Beyonce, Pink, Taylor broke Madonna's S&S record im the last few years. Its just how the world and prices evolved.

[androiduser 2,891]

4 minutes ago, littlestartman said:

 

Beyonce, Pink, Taylor broke Madonna's S&S record im the last few years. Its just how the world and prices evolved.

even if you lowered Taylor's ticket prices to S&S prices and reduced her tour to the same number of shows Madonna did, she'd still break the record, simply because she played bigger stadiums. It's not just charts and increase in prices etc. The demand is huge. Huge crowds were gathering outside of her shows just to hear the show.

 

[A. A. Aardvark 5,108]

23 minutes ago, JessicaRabbit said:

The answer to this this thread is NO.  

 

'Has Taylor Swift Surpassed Madonna' = is a loaded question.
Vinyl & CD have higher profits than streaming.
So it's comparing chalk 'n' cheese.
Or someone who isn't the worlds greatest singer - but has done rather well.
With the current darling of people who only know streaming.

la la la 

 

[luckypierre78 308]

50 minutes ago, A. A. Aardvark said:

'Has Taylor Swift Surpassed Madonna' = is a loaded question.
Vinyl & CD have higher profits than streaming.
So it's comparing chalk 'n' cheese.
Or someone who isn't the worlds greatest singer - but has done rather well.
With the current darling of people who only know streaming.

la la la 

 

Both aren't the world's greatest singer, so at least that's comparable lol.  Saying this as a fan of both

[littlestartman 181]

1 hour ago, androiduser said:

even if you lowered Taylor's ticket prices to S&S prices and reduced her tour to the same number of shows Madonna did, she'd still break the record, simply because she played bigger stadiums. It's not just charts and increase in prices etc. The demand is huge. Huge crowds were gathering outside of her shows just to hear the show.

 

No one is denying her numbers but thats not all that matters

Does this woman have any live performance better than anything that M peformed between 1987-1994... 

Does she have any music video that is artistically closer to Vogue or Like A Prayer?

 

[Madnness 286]

What criteria do you have in mind to answer this question, apart from the number of albums sold, tickets sold, views, likes, Spotify stats, etc.? 

[Madnness 286]

I mean, Taylor achieved BIG numbers (so has Madonna, in 40 years of her career), but how do you measure quality? Cultural impact? 

[Enrico 16,092]

4 hours ago, luckypierre78 said:

I'm a 40 year old gay man and I know every Taylor Swift album except her self titled.  I think a lot of you have your heads stuck in the sand if your idea of Taylor Swift's music is "teeny bopper" and you're talking about Shake It Off.  That song is almost a decade old and if going by total stream count is only her FIFTH most popular song.  The string of Folklore/Evermore/Midnights/The Tortured Poets Department have most people in the music industry praising her songwriting ability.  Adele, Billy Joel, Carole King, Stevie Nicks, Ringo Starr, Bruce Springsteen, Phoebe Bridgers, Olivia Rodrigo, Jon Bon Jovi, and Dolly Parton have all praised her songwriting.  Taylor might not write songs that you specifically like to listen to, but to discredit her songwriting ability is basically saying some of the people known for being the best lyricists of all time have no idea what they're talking about.

Multiple women can make good music.  It's ok.

Where exactly in my post did I mention her songwriting?

Where do you live? I only said that here in Italy she is just famous but no one knows her songs. And they are never on the radio. Strange cause this doesn't happen to Whitney or Celine or Gaga or Katy or Pink.

And yes, multiple women can make good music. To me, for instance, Cyndi Lauper is a great artist, even if she isn't selling million records anymore.

[androiduser 2,891]

39 minutes ago, littlestartman said:

No one is denying her numbers but thats not all that matters

Does this woman have any live performance better than anything that M peformed between 1987-1994... 

Does she have any music video that is artistically closer to Vogue or Like A Prayer?

 

no, in my opinion she does not, but other performers have great performances or great videos, and we'd say they aren't close to Madonna because they don't have the numbers. Fans interpret standards as they please.

[Boombox90 4,386]

3 hours ago, littlestartman said:

Im sure Drake also surpassed MJ in terms of charts. Its not the same for every artist. Its easier nowadays with streaming and algorithms the rules are different you are alble to chart with non singles etc. The way charts and sucess is measured is not the same.

And I can only name one Drake song; Madonna 

lol

[Redha DBL 7,864]

As for Taylors shows and ticket sales, most of today kids are totally dumb when it comes to their idols and music, they just worship singers that are totally bland and safe and they just follow the mass. They just don't like original, one of a kind and  adventurous artists. They are the safest generation ever. The total opposite of kids from the 80's who were searching for rebels artist who were pushing boundaries. Today the safest the most successful and Taylor Swift is the perfect product, her fans don't even have to think or have an opinion. The girl is standing with her guitar singing about her ex boyfriend for the 560th time and these boring and predictable kids are in admiration... That is pathetic. Look at the charts... The biggest sellers are now or totally def rappers rapping about their bitches big asses or their money, or bland singers who take no risk and are safer than your grandmother... Totally uninspired and uninspiring generation. It's all about looking perfect on Instagram but they have 0 artist creativity. 

[Blue Jean 17,144]

Taylor Swift has been popular for a long time but she only really has 2 peaks in popularity.

The 1989 era. And now this last period of The Eras Tour. (Basically the last 2 years.)

So to say her peak is longer than Madonna’s is just not accurate.

I think comparing the impact of the 2 is very difficult because they come from different eras and are very different. It’s like comparing The Beatles to Michael Jackson.

But yes in terms of fame and popularly she is as big as Madonna for this generation. The way fans respond to a pop star is also extremely different now so it is tricky to compare. In my eyes Madonna and MJ seem more popular than Taylor by far. But it’s comparing apples and oranges so I don’t know. Social media is very different to thousands chasing you at an airport.

[Blue Jean 17,144]

1 hour ago, Madnness said:

I mean, Taylor achieved BIG numbers (so has Madonna, in 40 years of her career), but how do you measure quality? Cultural impact? 

Exactly. I think Taylor is more respected and more safe than Madonna. She’s family friendly. So she has that on her side. But in the longer term I think it will make her “cultural impact” seem less significant. She hasn’t really brought anything new to the table that other artists or women haven’t done before. She’s not really changing the landscape at all.