Elisa

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  1. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-47177250/the-drag-kid-who-has-madonna-and-rupaul-as-fans The notion of a "drag kid" still being controversial, even in the gay community, I was curious to know what Madonna fans think about it. Is it just "kids expressing themselves" or can we be worried that these kids are used by their parents/handlers just like "freaks" were used in freak shows in the past?
  2. Elisa

    The Look of Love Bad Girl Crazy for you Rescue Me Take a bow He's a man Back in Business and I know this song is pretty forgotten by many, but I just love "Can't stop"
  3. Elisa

    I'm not even going to respond to the "full-on Trumpist" comment. I understand that in your binary world, people are either conservative/Trumpist or full-on liberals. I was trying to have a calm debate, but you are aggressive and it starts to feel as I have to justify myself to you, which I won't do. There are plenty of people on this forum (and others) who feel like me about post-2008, and I'm still a fan of her over several decades. Keep her hostage? She's free to do whatever she wants, and I'm free to like it or not. I've laid out the reasons why I'm here, not going to do it again....so I'll respectfully say what I have to say, whether you like it or not.
  4. Elisa

    Thank you for all these excellent replies. I have to say there's some intellectual level on this forum, and that makes me happy. I realize I had misinterpreted the video. I've watched it again, and you guys got it right. @RUADJAI: I agree with your interpretation (and I don't think there are any other way to understand the video). I've often thought about the "Watch me burn" lyrics.... and I sure as hell feeling like we are watching her burn right now (let's stay hopeful for the new album). "The lights they will turn down". I think she didn't expect to be so addicted to the light herself. After reading your reply, I realize that the song was much deeper than I thought. I've always thought the way Madonna questioned fame was fascinating. Musically speaking, the song is ok but nothing exceptional, so I guess many people didn't take the time to dig deeper. I guess I will watch the video once in a while, with a new outlook thanks to you @anaglyphx: also an excellent reply. Thank you for taking the time to write it. "crazy conservative and liberal mania in all countries around the world." That's perfectly summed up. I tend to seek moderation in everything, and it seems people have become more binary and extreme lately. Art and commerce, that's her ultimate paradox. Very well put, I totally agree. About the messiah complex, I think she saw what it costs for an artist to criticize the system, the medias, the politics... Michael Jackson had that same complex, and I always feel that problems for him started when he started singing songs that wasn't about going to the club and dancing anymore. When he did "Dangerous" (with all the symbolism on the famous cover), then he kept on going with "Earth song", "Scream", "They don't care about us", and many other songs on the album "History", he was officially over. I always wonder if the allegations weren't a scheme. So I think she knows she can't do anything, and certainly not start a revolution.... but she keeps on fantasizing about it. The part about overcoming the ego is brilliant, reminds me of "The Beast Within" (one of my favorites) and I do guess "the anxiety of an icon nearing the end of her long reign" is pretty obvious. Like I said, I wish the song had been superior musically, because I completely overlooked the deep meaning. I've really enjoyed reading your reply. I'm impressed....you look so young
  5. Elisa

    Well, it would be nice to stop pushing the idea that all conservatives are heartless nazis. Not only is it intellectually stupid, but it's also dishonest. Her father is a pretty conservative man, but he accepted his son's homosexuality and kept on loving him as a son. There are a lot of reasonable conservative people. Of course, celebrities are entitled to their opinion. I've never said the contrary. However, I thing it's not good for entertainment to be too involved in politics. It has to remain mainly about escapism and provoking thought. Not bluntly saying "hey that's the bad guy" and "that's the good guy". Who are you with? It sucks, and it's insulting to the people. Not to mention that during these last elections, with all these stars bashing Trump, a lot of people have been disgusted by Hollywood. The magic is dead because of all the patronizing speeches and the incredible hypocrisy. People think :" Oh really, you're telling me to open the borders but you leave in gated communities and have 3 bodyguards escorting you when you go to Starbucks?" or "You're telling me the grabbing-pussy incident is the epitome of immorality when you have been drinking Champagne and making movies with men known for being dangerous predators for women, sometimes for children?" Im more of a conservative, but I'm definitely not a fan of Trump as a person. However, seeing De Niro threatening him to punch him in the face (thus doing what Trump would do, bluffing and playing alpha), or seeing Madonna promising blowjobs to Hillary voters was pathetic, and actually serving Trump. All this made me disliking artists taking sides politically. You can fight racism by writing "To Kill a Mockingbird", and you can go on every show to insult a politician you don't like. Not the same.
  6. Elisa

    @NowRadiate: I don't care that she's not the "larger-than-life" star that she was. Nobody in their right mind would expect that. It's simply impossible for a poster to peak for eternity. What Madonna accomplished by being on top of the game for several decades is already incredible. I care that she kills her own legacy.... you can agree, disagree, but the fact is, that most people find her pathetic today. That's enough to conclude that she's doing something wrong. We can't even say that she's taking huge artistic risks, and thus the masses don't get it.... which is kind of what happens with "American life", or "Sex". No she's fucking it up by being a desperate trend follower. Honestly, that is not something I expected from her. It takes guts to be an anti-Trump liberal, really? It takes guts to criticize conservatives politicians and ideas? No, it doesn't. That's what any person wanting the medias approval would do. "she has always expressed and played with her inherent duality. Madonna. Mother of God or Jezebel. Shallow and deep. Entertainer and mindset-challenger." That's so perfectly worded. I might quote you if you don't mind :-) That's exactly what Im missing. I can't see the duality anymore. Two years ago, she posted a picture on Instagram where she was giving a finger in a church. (Again, just like the Femen, I dare her to do that in a Synagogue or in a Mosque). Kissing a black priest, masturbating before asking "God?".... that was something else then giving a finger in a church. I don't even get the message there. Like you said, there are definitely noone to admire. I don't feel like Im wasting time though. I've explained why I feel the need to express my rather negative opinion. There's a strong emotional attachment. However, I will always share my opinion in a respectful and thought-provoking way.... and there's also plenty to say about past eras.
  7. Elisa

    @NowRadiate : Is your question for real? Have you read my entire comment? Madonna has been a big influence in my life from my childhood to my 30's. It's not a secret that since 2008, many lifelong fans have been puzzled and/or disappointed by her choices. Like It has been said many times, I too feel that the pre-2008 Madonna would laugh at the current Madonna, that she had somehow lost touch with reality. Being a fan is a very weird thing. In your head, you have an intimate relationship with someone you've never met. That person actually matters to you, influences your choices, your lifestyle, your identity... when that lasts several decades, it doesn't just erase itself instantly. I feel like after a painful break-up, wondering "Is that the person I used to adore? Has she changed? ". I understand you don't feel that way, but I need to express myself, to share my feelings with other fans, and like I said, Madonna is an excellent base for debate on deeper subjects, whether you like her or not (like all Icons are, actually).
  8. I don't know if it has ever been discussed here, but that video was pretty scary. It seems to me she was alluding to stars being used by some secret groups as a mean of mass mind-control. I remember I was surprised the video didn't get any particular attention. What's the meaning of this video in your opinion?
  9. Elisa

    I'm not going to hide Im more on the conservative side... not full-on conservative, but reasonably conservative, and nowadays, I agree more with Camille Paglia (or Milo) than with Madonna. Just like her, Im totally in awe with the Madonna of the past (though she wasn't a "nice person", like M said herself), and Im not going to lie, the Madonna we see since 2008 is a huge disappointment to me, whether it's on a personal level, or on an artistic level. When I was a little girl and a teenager, it was easier to combine my conservative education with being a Madonna fan (though Sex was a shock to me, but I was only 11). She was actually the one who made me question things. What made Madonna interesting is that she seemed like she struggled between a certain attachment to tradition, to religion and her bad girl side (perfect pop star material if you ask me). Would she do "Papa don't preach" today? I doubt it. She would be too worried to be on the pro-life side (even if Im not pro-life, but it was brave). Still, I feel Madonna is a perfect symbol of our western civilisation in so many aspects, in all of its contradictions.... In the 80's, the 90's, she has been the ultimate western woman, feminine yet strong, fun and sometimes crazy, yet disciplined and intelligent. Now, I see her as the symbol of western decadence, as the embodiment of what happens when individual rights are the only value left, when individual rights become entitlement and narcissism. Everything becomes mediocrity : "I can disfigure my body if I want to! YEY ! FREEDOM!". It doesn't get more adolescent that that. Mentioning that subject, I remember I read a man died because he injected his testicules with too much silicone : https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/07/man-28-dies-after-injecting-silicone-into-his-testicles-8116122/ Are we all going to pretend that these extreme behaviors are ok now? In the name of freedom? About her stance against Le Pen and the alt-right, not only is it really disrespectful to visit a foreign country and attack its political leaders (go to Russia and attack Poutine, now that would be having some balls), but it was also done in such a mediocre manner it was laughable. Suggesting all conservative people are "Hitler" is the lowest level of thinking. I'm also very curious to know what her father thinks of her being so vocal politically. I seriously doubt her father is a democrat. After the last elections, I came to think that artists and performers shouldn't be too involved politically. Most of them are not educated in politics anyway. I've always liked seeing them expressing their ideas and change people's perspective through their art (like MJ did with "They don't care about us" or "Scream"), but they shouldn't go so far as telling people who they should vote for, insult certain politicians and support other. It becomes patronizing and disrespectful to the people.
  10. Elisa

    There are interviews that are vastly superior to this one.... during the ROL era, during the COD era (for example, when she questions the concept of "having fun" in IMTTYAS). There's nothing really deep and wise about this interview.... The same answers could have been given by someone as Miley Cyrus or Katy Perry. The interview is so politically correct and predictable it makes it boring. I know many will disagree, but this was kind of the start of Madonna becoming a SJW. In my humble opinion, the "Secret Project" was pure bullshit with no depth. It was just a bunch of platitudes about political rebellion and freedom.... which just showed that she's in love with the figure of the political rebel. It didn't have the substance of "American Life". During the 80's and 90's, Madonna didn't constantly use the words "feminist", "homophobia", "misogyny", "fascism"..... she used to fight these things but in a smarter way, in a more subtle way, in a more artistic and less boring way. She was much less binary. Now she jumped on the SJW bandwagon, again to please the millennials. The Madonna I know didn't whine and cry in front of a crowd because her billionaire self-made ass was oppressed by the industry. She was a soldier, aware from day 1 that life is tough, that nothing will be handed on a platter.