Angela Becker issues

[scion 3,135]

It’s so bizarre to read forumers discussing a total strangers sex life. Really weird that level of involvement. 

[Blue Jean 16,852]

19 hours ago, Pootz333 said:

Was this all reported in tabloids at the time?! 

No

[Piksel8 720]

5 hours ago, planetbenjamin said:

DIdn't Angela get pregnant? I think that's the only reason she left. No drama around it. Madonna had to find a replacement. 

I think that was Donna Deleroy who got pregnant around 2008 pre Hard Candy who resigned as was replaced before the promo tour.

[Blue Jean 16,852]

59 minutes ago, cosmic_system said:

Well there was also a big rumour about She’s Not Me being about Angela because of Stuart and not about Guy.

Maybe nothing happened but Madonna and Stuart had a very strong bond during the whole RIT/Confessions years. Just watch the documentary. Madonna  recording the album at his flat. I don’t recall something like that with past collaborators (maybe Pettibone but he’s not straight) . They even went out together to concerts and stuff. And it’s true she wasn’t happy with the sales of Confessions in America so she wanted to do something “Urban”,  but the way she never really worked with Stuart again (yes the Miles Away remix, yes the 4 notes on W.E) was always very strange to me.

Also as far as I know Angela and Stuart were based in Los Angeles and not London, so I don’t really believe the “Madonna wanted to move to New York and Angela wanted to stay in London”. But building a family and working as Madonna’s manager it’s clearly not easy. 
 

Stuart is alsonot her usual type but we can say the same about Guy. In the end, who knows? 

I doubt there was anything with Stuart, she was with Guy through that whole time. 

I think it was pretty clear she didn’t work with Stuart again because she went in a different direction. He even commented about it, I believe she actually tried to get him on board and he said no, I can’t make that type of music.

[steady75 10,277]

English men have something about them. Madonna obviously found it very intoxicating. You can see the way she looked and interacted with both Guy & Stuart and her eyes were alive. She seemed soft. Wasn't Andy Bird supposedly the one that got away too?

 

[MDNA22 1,268]

I think she stopped working with Stuart because as Blue Jean said he is not into the sound she went to for Hard Candy - I think I read an interview saying along the lines that he's not interested in that sound and did not really think that direction suited Madonna but good luck to her etc. Maybe she asked him to do the S&S tour and just was not interested. Stuart is one of her best collaborators though along with Patrick Leonard and William Orbit 

[MDNA22 1,268]

On 4/8/2023 at 7:31 AM, Roland Barthes said:

 It's like a lot has been said about Caresse Henry, it's just that Madonna was disssatisfied and did not like Caresse's vision of the business anymore and wanted new blood and perspective after AL.

I did not know that I thought she was happy with Caresse as she managed her through the Ray of Light era and through the The Re-Invention Tour too? But suppose American Life was a dip commercially and critically in that period by Madonna's own standards at the time - but the RIT tour that followed was one of her best tours better than Drowned World.

[Prayer 16,568]

Something big happened with Caresse, definitely. She was completely wiped out from "I'm Going To Tell You A Secret" and Madonna didn't even acknowledge her death in 2010.

No way that was simply changing managers cause she wasn't happy and just that.

[Blue Jean 16,852]

6 minutes ago, MDNA22 said:

I did not know that I thought she was happy with Caresse as she managed her through the Ray of Light era and through the The Re-Invention Tour too? But suppose American Life was a dip commercially and critically in that period by Madonna's own standards at the time - but the RIT tour that followed was one of her best tours better than Drowned World.

Really? I thought most fans felt RIT was uninspired compared to DWT?

Actually the popular fan theory was always that Careese twisted her arm to do more of a greatest hits style show after the flop of American life and so she wasn’t overly fond of that show overall. And that was the reason why she’s never bothered releasing it properly. Because most of what’s worth seeing is in the doco.

 

[Blue Jean 16,852]

22 minutes ago, Prayer said:

Something big happened with Caresse, definitely. She was completely wiped out from "I'm Going To Tell You A Secret" and Madonna didn't even acknowledge her death in 2010.

No way that was simply changing managers cause she wasn't happy and just that.

I don’t think that’s unusual. She wasn’t someone who was known by the wider public and Madonna wasn’t even on social media then anyway.

[scion 3,135]

Yes I think most people view RIT as a downgrade from DWT, visually at least. Personally I prefer DWT visually and in terms of arrangements, but much prefer the RIT setlist. It’s a shame whoever planned the lighting was obviously missing for the duration of the the tour as it’s the worst lighting at a gig ever… it’s as plain as VT/WTG.

[Prayer 16,568]

15 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

I don’t think that’s unusual. She wasn’t someone who was known by the wider public and Madonna wasn’t even on social media then anyway.

She was already on Facebook and posting "personal" messages from time to time, it wasn't just the usual official/only announcements account. But of course it was still miles away (hehe) of what Instagram became for her years later.

Also, being her former manager and dying so young, Caresse's death made news all around, surely she was reached out for comment?

[deathproof 11,079]

42 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

I don’t think that’s unusual. She wasn’t someone who was known by the wider public and Madonna wasn’t even on social media then anyway.

She still had her own website and any comments on things like that would get posted to Madonna.com

Caresse was also around for a long time, working even before she was promoted to being a manager during the time of Evita. She was practically family. Her daughter was around the same age as Lola and both were friends as kids.

[Roland Barthes 6,092]

The press said that Madonna fired her because she had a fling with one of her bodyguards while she was married and Kaballah forbids it, which sounds like total bullshit. 

Caresse was still quoted in the press in late 2004 about the Warner lawsuit, which she dismissed without mincing words (it's all in the Madonna VS Warner thread) and the settlement coincides with her departure which she initiated but seems to have been forced to. It seemed all of sudden because Madonna had no back up plan (she complained about having to do everything on her own because she no longer had a manager). Her sister wanted to write a book saying Kaballah forced Madonna to do it but it never happened. Especially since about that time Madonna had a rabbi at Church of Kaballah fired from their London base because he denied the Holocaust (can you believe that ? A rabbi denying the Holocaust ????) and she was starting to be very irritated by the merch at the church and other celebrities endorsing it publicly. So she had more power over the church of Kaballah than they had over her EVEN THOUGH Philip Berg did all he could to help her from divorcing.

The whole Kaballah fiasco, i say fiasco because it is, should be a whole book. They screwed her bad. They took all the money from Raising Malawi, the guy in charge Philippe van den Bossche dated Tracy Anderson, he laundered millions from the charity, that's when Madonna and Gwyneth parted because Madonna wanted her to chose between Andersona and her. She chose Anderson.

The Church of Kaballah made millions thanks to Madonna's endorsement and they screwed her. This must have really broken her and it's something we seldom talk about, both Philip and Karen Berg are dead now. Little is known about Madonna's involvment with the church today, it does not seem the Purim parties she goes to are at the Chuch or an affiliate. It's not even known if the church is still a thing. So maybe Caresse foresaw all this and tried to open Madonna's eyes. It's weird little is said about all this when Kaballah has been a huge part of Madonna's life and work for a decade. I'm very curious to know where things stand today.

 

[Roland Barthes 6,092]

13 minutes ago, deathproof said:

She still had her own website and any comments on things like that would get posted to Madonna.com

Caresse was also around for a long time, working even before she was promoted to being a manager during the time of Evita. She was practically family. Her daughter was around the same age as Lola and both were friends as kids.

She was de Mann assistant.

[ChrisK 8,911]

47 minutes ago, Roland Barthes said:

The press said that Madonna fired her because she had a fling with one of her bodyguards while she was married and Kaballah forbids it, which sounds like total bullshit. 

Caresse was still quoted in the press in late 2004 about the Warner lawsuit, which she dismissed without mincing words (it's all in the Madonna VS Warner thread) and the settlement coincides with her departure which she initiated but seems to have been forced to. It seemed all of sudden because Madonna had no back up plan (she complained about having to do everything on her own because she no longer had a manager). Her sister wanted to write a book saying Kaballah forced Madonna to do it but it never happened. Especially since about that time Madonna had a rabbi at Church of Kaballah fired from their London base because he denied the Holocaust (can you believe that ? A rabbi denying the Holocaust ????) and she was starting to be very irritated by the merch at the church and other celebrities endorsing it publicly. So she had more power over the church of Kaballah than they had over her EVEN THOUGH Philip Berg did all he could to help her from divorcing.

The whole Kaballah fiasco, i say fiasco because it is, should be a whole book. They screwed her bad. They took all the money from Raising Malawi, the guy in charge Philippe van den Bossche dated Tracy Anderson, he laundered millions from the charity, that's when Madonna and Gwyneth parted because Madonna wanted her to chose between Andersona and her. She chose Anderson.

The Church of Kaballah made millions thanks to Madonna's endorsement and they screwed her. This must have really broken her and it's something we seldom talk about, both Philip and Karen Berg are dead now. Little is known about Madonna's involvment with the church today, it does not seem the Purim parties she goes to are at the Chuch or an affiliate. It's not even known if the church is still a thing. So maybe Caresse foresaw all this and tried to open Madonna's eyes. It's weird little is said about all this when Kaballah has been a huge part of Madonna's life and work for a decade. I'm very curious to know where things stand today.

 

Interesting read, I had no idea about lots of that - some I did, but didn't realize the extend. 

I too would be curious to see where thing stood today - 

[danielsevilla 956]

5 hours ago, Jet said:

They were married for a while.

Her name is Tamara

[Pootz333 2,894]

I adore DWT. It was my first live M experience.

But The Beast Within/ Vogue/ Bedtime Story on RIT are still some of the finest moments of her entire career for me. 

That Matt Lauer interview with her and her Rabbi when AL was released is still one of the most wtf moments of her career for me too🥴 Reading about the church's shady shenanigans above is not a surprise at all.

[Roland Barthes 6,092]

1 hour ago, Jackie said:

Interesting read, I had no idea about lots of that - some I did, but didn't realize the extend. 

I too would be curious to see where thing stood today - 

When Madonna ended in the Panama Papers it was only because of her Kaballah Center (i keep forgetting they rebranded themselves) charity "Spirituality For Kids" (which she founded when she did these children books), the IRS conducted an investigation on the Kaballah center in 2011/12 and they wondered why her non profit charity was registered in the Caymans islands ( a notorious tax evasion place). 

Most of the money she raised with Gucci and the Unicef when she did that charity event in 2008 went missing. Considering how high profile it was she must have felt the burn of the shame when it was revealed and she must have been mad.

There were stories about members being extorted money by the Bergs, forcing them to give money to their charities to "get closer to the light". They hired the spin doctor who helped Clinton after the Lewinsky scandal to make it go away and it did. Look, we don't talk about it. It's like Kaballah was all she was about and then, nothing. Even Ariana Grande don't talk about it and she, her bother Frank and her mother were members. In France they closed down their center because it's been officially registered as a cult by the state. Until Madonna speaks we will never know because she makes everyone sign nda's. Is Guy still into it ? He seemed so much into it when you read the stories people tell about meeting him then. I think she's still into Kaballah, the belief system but not into the Kaballah center. According to many sources it was just a scam and we don't know if she realized it or not. It's something that puzzles me how she fell for that. 

We so deserve an unauthorized bio covering the last 20 years ! 

[ChrisK 8,911]

1 hour ago, Roland Barthes said:

When Madonna ended in the Panama Papers it was only because of her Kaballah Center (i keep forgetting they rebranded themselves) charity "Spirituality For Kids" (which she founded when she did these children books), the IRS conducted an investigation on the Kaballah center in 2011/12 and they wondered why her non profit charity was registered in the Caymans islands ( a notorious tax evasion place). 

Most of the money she raised with Gucci and the Unicef when she did that charity event in 2008 went missing. Considering how high profile it was she must have felt the burn of the shame when it was revealed and she must have been mad.

There were stories about members being extorted money by the Bergs, forcing them to give money to their charities to "get closer to the light". They hired the spin doctor who helped Clinton after the Lewinsky scandal to make it go away and it did. Look, we don't talk about it. It's like Kaballah was all she was about and then, nothing. Even Ariana Grande don't talk about it and she, her bother Frank and her mother were members. In France they closed down their center because it's been officially registered as a cult by the state. Until Madonna speaks we will never know because she makes everyone sign nda's. Is Guy still into it ? He seemed so much into it when you read the stories people tell about meeting him then. I think she's still into Kaballah, the belief system but not into the Kaballah center. According to many sources it was just a scam and we don't know if she realized it or not. It's something that puzzles me how she fell for that. 

We so deserve an unauthorized bio covering the last 20 years ! 

Wow we do, so much has happened in the last 20 years - very interesting. I agree, I think she still subscribes to the belief system but not the organization itself. 

[Honey Little 4,484]

10 hours ago, cosmic_system said:

I don’t think they did? 
 

I think when he found out that she was pregnant, he was like, “no way I am having kids”, and divorced her so that he would have a better chance to get rehired by Madonna in the future. Madonna only allows her own children to tour with her.

[deathproof 11,079]

14 minutes ago, Honey Little said:

I think when he found out that she was pregnant, he was like, “no way I am having kids”, and divorced her so that he would have a better chance to get rehired by Madonna in the future. Madonna only allows her own children to tour with her.

Angela and Stuart are still together as far as I know.

[teammadonna 395]

6 hours ago, Blue Jean said:

Really? I thought most fans felt RIT was uninspired compared to DWT?

Actually the popular fan theory was always that Careese twisted her arm to do more of a greatest hits style show after the flop of American life and so she wasn’t overly fond of that show overall. And that was the reason why she’s never bothered releasing it properly. Because most of what’s worth seeing is in the doco.

 

I have to agree with this. To be honest, RIT tour felt like that she tried to save as much money as it could on stage sets. A screen and a cheap steel staircase which moving from the top... It felt like wrapping up the cheap stage with a plausible word of reinvention. It felt like little bit bigger version of Madame x tour.

Edited April 10, 2023 by teammadonna (see edit history)

[Honey Little 4,484]

I really liked the entire RIT. But my favorite parts were the American Life songs plus The Beast Within/Vogue. I liked the minimalist stage and fewer dancers. Girlie Show is my all-time favorite tour though.

[MDNA22 1,268]

8 hours ago, Blue Jean said:

Really? I thought most fans felt RIT was uninspired compared to DWT?

Actually the popular fan theory was always that Careese twisted her arm to do more of a greatest hits style show after the flop of American life and so she wasn’t overly fond of that show overall. And that was the reason why she’s never bothered releasing it properly. Because most of what’s worth seeing is in the doco.

 

As brilliant as DWT is and that Ray of Light and Music deserved concentrating in a tour and great to have the live versions of so many album tracks from 2 of her greatest albums  - there was no space left for more back catalogue and uptempo tracks so was not much a party until the end for Holiday and Music. I think fans thought that RIT redressed the balance with an awesome set list. I think Caresse was so right in twisting Madonna's arm to do a more hits style show after DWT and American Life. It had been more than 10 years since she had performed songs like Vogue, Like a Prayer and Into The Grove on a tour and it was much easier to get tickets for RIT than DWT which shows the interest was less - maybe people expecting her to concentrate on AL and refuse to play her older tracks. The shows I saw I thought Madonna seemed to enjoy performing in the RIT show and audience reaction more than DWT. Suppose DWT is more artistic but RIT is more fun for the audience. I wonder if for the Celebration tour if she really wants to do a hits tour or has had her arm twisted again?