!!POP EMERGENCY!! Madonna in the Studio With Stuart Price

[Alibaba 1,624]

Zane Lowe is one of the worst arse lickers in media. Nothing he says is authentic. He just wants to feel like he’s connected to whoever he interviews. His recent Lenny Kravitz interview was self-parody. 

[Alibaba 1,624]

13 minutes ago, Debord said:

Rebel Heart and Madame X are full of lyrics about ageing and her place in the world though.

I understand what you mean, but I don’t really think there’s anything confessional and personal about the way the lyrics in Madame X are expressed. There are concepts for sure, and Extreme Occident is clearly autobiographical, but in a more veiled existential manner. 
 

Aside from the song Rebel Heart, I can’t think of what other songs on RH you are thinking of. Veni Vidi Vici is obviously laden with clever self-references, but it isn’t confessional or intimate in my opinion…and it really is just my very subjective opinion!

 

P.S. I really was responding more to the idea that Madonna would be driven to write about her intimate experience of loss in the face of recent deaths in her life. I don’t think she’s devoid of the ability to emote or be self-reflective, but I wonder if she would feel the desire to be that candid in the way that we know Promise To Try was for her mother. 

[Debord 948]

2 minutes ago, Alibaba said:

I understand what you mean, but I don’t really think there’s anything confessional and personal about the way the lyrics in Madame X are expressed. There are concepts for sure, and Extreme Occident is clearly autobiographical, but in a more veiled existential manner. 
 

Aside from the song Rebel Heart, I can’t think of what other songs on RH you are thinking of. Veni Vidi Vici is obviously laden with clever self-references, but it isn’t confessional or intimate in my opinion…and it really is just my very subjective opinion!

I wrote about it at the time, here's an excerpt:

The album is littered with obvious references to Madonna's past - the Vogue sample on Holy Water, the Justify My Love lyrics on Best Night, the cavalcade of song titles which make up Veni Vidi Vici; the title track's moving reflection on her life; it's also packed with allusions to Madonna's status as an ageing pop icon. On electro-folk tour de force Devil Prey she sings "Holding on, but I’m getting weaker/watch me disappear." Ghosttown, a Ryan Tedder-esque anthem which is probably the album's best chance of a hit, depicts a barren post-apocalyptic world and finds Madonna musing that "Everything's bound to break sooner or later." In the gorgeous Joan of Arc she sings "Even when the world turns its back on me/There could be a war, but I'm not going down." Album closer (standard version) Wash All Over Me is an elegiac ballad which seems self-explanatory given what I've written above:

In a world that's changing
I'm a stranger in a strange land
There's a contradiction
And I'm stuck here in between
Life is like a desert
An oasis to confuse me
So I walk this razor's edge
Will I stand or will I fall?
...If this is the end then let it come
Let it come
Let it rain
...Gonna watch the sun going down
I'm not gonna run from all this sadness

Even Living For Love is clearly about her place in the world now. The most direct song is Queen which she apparently pulled at the last minute, perhaps because it was a bit too direct in acknowledging she wasn't on top of the heap anymore.

[Alibaba 1,624]

1 minute ago, Debord said:

I wrote about it at the time, here's an excerpt:

The album is littered with obvious references to Madonna's past - the Vogue sample on Holy Water, the Justify My Love lyrics on Best Night, the cavalcade of song titles which make up Veni Vidi Vici; the title track's moving reflection on her life; it's also packed with allusions to Madonna's status as an ageing pop icon. On electro-folk tour de force Devil Prey she sings "Holding on, but I’m getting weaker/watch me disappear." Ghosttown, a Ryan Tedder-esque anthem which is probably the album's best chance of a hit, depicts a barren post-apocalyptic world and finds Madonna musing that "Everything's bound to break sooner or later." In the gorgeous Joan of Arc she sings "Even when the world turns its back on me/There could be a war, but I'm not going down." Album closer (standard version) Wash All Over Me is an elegiac ballad which seems self-explanatory given what I've written above:

In a world that's changing
I'm a stranger in a strange land
There's a contradiction
And I'm stuck here in between
Life is like a desert
An oasis to confuse me
So I walk this razor's edge
Will I stand or will I fall?
...If this is the end then let it come
Let it come
Let it rain
...Gonna watch the sun going down
I'm not gonna run from all this sadness

Even Living For Love is clearly about her place in the world now. The most direct song is Queen which she apparently pulled at the last minute, perhaps because it was a bit too direct in acknowledging she wasn't on top of the heap anymore.

I love that. I just don’t personally find those to be uniquely personal. They’re expressions of the human condition at work to me. I love that your interpretation is so deeply perceived through Madonna’s unique lens, and I can totally honor that!

Here’s my rebuttal (and I do so purely in good faith and total respect as I am no more an authority on Madonna than anyone else): 

 I’d say Living For Love can be understood from a much broader experience as the triumph of the human spirit over the dynamics of losing oneself to unhealthy behavioral patterns. 

I don’t personally find the self-references particularly insightful or intimate either. They can be clever and they resonate with her fanbase, but they don’t expose any particular depth of emotion or deeper insight into what the references mean to her.

I don’t find Devil Prey or Ghosttown to be personal to Madonna at all. I think both songs are stellar, but they are about universal themes of fear, loss, escapism and the redemptive value of love. 
 

Regarding Joan of Arc, I totally agree and admit my absolute error in forgetting it. It was a very rare and uncharacteristic display of vulnerability. More of that please, indeed! 
 

And finally, Wash All Over Me is exactly what I was referring to when I said that her approach to the personal is more veiled in the philosophical and spiritual. I think the lyrics are fantastic, but they are existential in nature, not intimate. 

When all is said and done, it would be splitting hairs to dissect it any further as I do see your perspective. I still contend that I can’t imagine Madonna writing with the innocent vulnerability of Promise To Try or Oh Father at this stage, but I want so badly to be proven wrong!!! 😂

 

[Debord 948]

I think ageing as a theme though is universal and lends itself to more philosophical lyrics. A "direct" song about it would be quite clunky.

[Alibaba 1,624]

1 minute ago, Debord said:

I think ageing as a theme though is universal and lends itself to more philosophical lyrics. A "direct" song about it would be quite clunky.

I cannot think of any Madonna song in which she addresses aging conceptually or intimately aside from Live to Tell when she asks the question “Will I grow old?” So tenderly.

To stay on point, I only originally stated that I didn’t think Madonna would feel the need to write an obviously mournful song about her recent losses. That was my intention. I don’t want to come across as saying that Madonna can’t write about personal feelings and experiences as that is not my belief. 

[Blue Jean 17,758]

6 hours ago, MikeyK said:

Aussies were responsible for turning me on to Abba in the mid 90s. You’re terrible, Muriel.

Dont blame us. I’ve never been an ABBA fan.

[Debord 948]

46 minutes ago, Alibaba said:

I cannot think of any Madonna song in which she addresses aging conceptually or intimately aside from Live to Tell when she asks the question “Will I grow old?” So tenderly.

To stay on point, I only originally stated that I didn’t think Madonna would feel the need to write an obviously mournful song about her recent losses. That was my intention. I don’t want to come across as saying that Madonna can’t write about personal feelings and experiences as that is not my belief. 

I think writing about the loss of someone close to you lends itself to far more direct writing than the theme of ageing. I think she'll address it in her work.

[godonna 88]

12 hours ago, Drownedboy said:

But that's just it.. The "" you speak of is grouping Madame X with MDNA, Rebel Heart and Hard Candy. Objectively it is more alike to her 1998-2003 releases whether sonically, thematically, artistically.. really any field. You (people) only group it with the former because you don't like it, not because that's where it actually belongs.

[Blue Jean 17,758]

2 hours ago, Debord said:

Maybe you don't like a song and for some reason feel the need to discount the positives around it rather than just...not liking the song? I haven't made any "excuses" for its failure.

I don’t remember all the positive reviews you’re talking about. But then again, I listened to it when it was premiered and judged it for myself. The opening verse was cheesy and I’ve never waited so long for a chorus in my life. It’s her worst ever lead single.

[Blue Jean 17,758]

38 minutes ago, godonna said:

But that's just it.. The "" you speak of is grouping Madame X with MDNA, Rebel Heart and Hard Candy. Objectively it is more alike to her 1998-2003 releases whether sonically, thematically, artistically.. really any field. You (people) only group it with the former because you don't like it, not because that's where it actually belongs.

I think Madame X was more creative than what she’d done in awhile. But it felt kind of half baked. Like the ideas were there but it was never developed into the masterpiece it could have been. It kind of reminds me of listening to the Ray of Light demo assembly. 

Hard Candy, for what it is, at least feels polished and is a solid listen start to end. Not the most interesting direction musically but there’s no filler on that album.

[Debord 948]

3 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

I don’t remember all the positive reviews you’re talking about. But then again, I listened to it when it was premiered and judged it for myself. The opening verse was cheesy and I’ve never waited so long for a chorus in my life. It’s her worst ever lead single.

I also judged it for myself. As for positive reviews:

The Guardian - 4/5 "a return to form"

Slant - "a sultry midtempo track driven by a decidedly unhurried tropical rhythm and Madonna’s catchy refrain of “one-two cha-cha-cha"

Variety - "a sultry and promising introduction to Madonna’s latest era"

NME - "The track is everything we want from a Madonna comeback: it’s fresh, (arguably her best work in years)"

Pitchfork - "Madonna has struggled at times in her late career to find a balance between campy bangers and more mature balladry; Medellín is something of a sexy, stylish middle ground"

Vulture - "Medellin” is her best lead single since that era’s ABBA-referencing “Hung Up.” 

Unless Madonna loons took over the media, it might be that many folk just genuinely liked the song.

[Blue Jean 17,758]

3 hours ago, Alibaba said:

Zane Lowe is one of the worst arse lickers in media. Nothing he says is authentic. He just wants to feel like he’s connected to whoever he interviews. His recent Lenny Kravitz interview was self-parody. 

Typical of most people on radio or television though. Theyre like glorified sales people. He’s just particularly unconvincing.

[Blue Jean 17,758]

7 minutes ago, Debord said:

I also judged it for myself. As for positive reviews:

The Guardian - 4/5 "a return to form"

Slant - "a sultry midtempo track driven by a decidedly unhurried tropical rhythm and Madonna’s catchy refrain of “one-two cha-cha-cha"

Variety - "a sultry and promising introduction to Madonna’s latest era"

NME - "The track is everything we want from a Madonna comeback: it’s fresh, (arguably her best work in years)"

Pitchfork - "Madonna has struggled at times in her late career to find a balance between campy bangers and more mature balladry; Medellín is something of a sexy, stylish middle ground"

Vulture - "Medellin” is her best lead single since that era’s ABBA-referencing “Hung Up.” 

Interesting. Just goes to show that reviews dont mean much.

[Debord 948]

Just now, Blue Jean said:

Interesting. Just goes to show that reviews dont mean much.

Well indeed, liking it or not is just personal opinion at the end of the day. That praising it on here is framed as the wacky view of irrational fans is very tiresome.

[Blue Jean 17,758]

12 minutes ago, Debord said:

Well indeed, liking it or not is just personal opinion at the end of the day. That praising it on here is framed as the wacky view of irrational fans is very tiresome.

I’m exhausted after all this

[Starchild 3,827]

6 hours ago, Blue Jean said:

I dont need to spread my legs when I’m on all fours

Gross.