Has Shep Pettibone heard Love Hurts demo?

[Prayer 16,500]

2 minutes ago, androiduser said:

So genius that it was used without permission. Luckily, the case was settled.

Maybe that's why she's used it so many times? Imagine if they settled on a flat-rate single fee for her to be able to use it forever later on.

Cheap smart queen!

[androiduser 2,756]

Just now, Prayer said:

Maybe that's why she's used so many times? Imagine if they settled on a flat-rate single fee for her to be able to use it forever later on.

Cheap smart queen!

Could be, M and her team probably secured the sample for future use. It sounds GREAT and it fits Erotica and the later tracks perfectly

[Gonzus 2,832]

18 hours ago, stefo said:

I'm sure it would have worked better than Did you do it, don't you? 

You're absolutely right. But a more up-tempo of Shame could have been included too

[Gonzus 2,832]

Didn't she get into trouble for using this sample?

[Prayer 16,500]

10 minutes ago, Gonzus said:

Didn't she get into trouble for using this sample?

Indeed, not the first time ("The Beast Within" Remix of "Justify My Love") but with "Erotica":

She (Fairouz) almost took Madonna to court. In 1992, the American singer sampled Fairouz’s El Yawm Ulliqa Ala Khashab in her hit song Erotica, without obtaining permission from the Lebanese star. The musicians would settle matters outside of the court, but Madonna’s album and single were both banned in Lebanon.

https://web.archive.org/web/20191119024650/https://en.vogue.me/culture/fairouz-facts-singer-birthday/

[androiduser 2,756]

1 hour ago, Gonzus said:

Didn't she get into trouble for using this sample?

I assume the sample was used without permission because it's a traditional song, so the music and lyrics are not under copyright and don't need to be credited (just like using classical music, for example), but using a specific recording of the song is not permitted without permission. But I am surprised that nobody at the record label warned them about it.

[Prayer 16,500]

10 minutes ago, androiduser said:

I assume the sample was used without permission because it's a traditional song, so the music and lyrics are not under copyright and don't need to be credited (just like using classical music, for example), but using a specific recording of the song is not permitted without permission. But I am surprised that nobody at the record label warned them about it.

1992 was somehow still early days for sampling. It had started in the hip hop world in the mid 80s and didn't cross over to other genres until late 80s and early 90s. The big lawsuits for sampling didn't start until 1989 and 1990 and it wasn't until 1993-1994-1995 that record companies got serious about clearance to avoid any legal drama.

But at first it was the Wild West. Remember "Justify My love" sampled Public Enemy's "Security Of The First World":

Which at the same time sampled this other track:

There was legal drama around "Justify My Love" yeah:

https://ew.com/article/1991/02/01/controversy-over-justify-my-love/

Prince said it best:

xd

[Curtains 13,893]

23 hours ago, Alpha said:

Interesting! I wonder if she intended to do more songs with him or if it was just a one-off

She also did Queen’s English with him for Jose & Luis.

[Gonzus 2,832]

As far as I know, their first work together were the Rescue Me remixes, among which Houseboat Vocal is her best remix ever IMO. I loved it in 1991 and I love it now

[Anapausis 6,578]

19 hours ago, Prayer said:

Indeed, not the first time ("The Beast Within" Remix of "Justify My Love") but with "Erotica":

She (Fairouz) almost took Madonna to court. In 1992, the American singer sampled Fairouz’s El Yawm Ulliqa Ala Khashab in her hit song Erotica, without obtaining permission from the Lebanese star. The musicians would settle matters outside of the court, but Madonna’s album and single were both banned in Lebanon.

https://web.archive.org/web/20191119024650/https://en.vogue.me/culture/fairouz-facts-singer-birthday/

I guess Madonna had been banned in most MENA countries until American Life (which is unsurprising).

[Roland Barthes 6,078]

Petty bone. Don't trust anything he says...like he molded the True Blue remix around MJ's the way you make me feel released a full year later.... and on and on....

What i wonder about Love Hurts is if it was done at the same time as Queen's English since it matches chronologicaly. 

Vasquez was Pettibone right hand on CaC and LaP remixes then Tony Shimkin took over him as Petty bone Do-it-all man. Shimkin left Shep after the release of Erotica and joined Vasquez as his right hand man...

[Anapausis 6,578]

17 minutes ago, Roland Barthes said:

Petty bone. Don't trust anything he says...like he molded the True Blue remix around MJ's the way you make me feel released a full year later.... and on and on....

What i wonder about Love Hurts is if it was done at the same time as Queen's English since it matches chronologicaly. 

Vasquez was Pettibone right hand on CaC and LaP remixes then Tony Shimkin took over him as Petty bone Do-it-all man. Shimkin left Shep after the release of Erotica and joined Vasquez as his right hand man...

That's why I don't buy for a second the theory Madonna actually hated the early versions of Goodbye to Innocence as Shep stated to his Erotica Dairies, fine @MPowered?

[MPowered 7,699]

1 hour ago, Anapausis said:

That's why I don't buy for a second the theory Madonna actually hated the early versions of Goodbye to Innocence as Shep stated to his Erotica Dairies, fine @MPowered?

I think the Erotica diaries are pretty reliable. I would rather believe him than a random member on a forum.

[Anapausis 6,578]

9 hours ago, MPowered said:

I think the Erotica diaries are pretty reliable. I would rather believe him than a random member on a forum.

Well @Roland Barthes is allegedly a veteran French journalist (I suspect he works for Le Monde Diplomatique).

[DiegoLCL 5,684]

13 hours ago, MPowered said:

I think the Erotica diaries are pretty reliable. I would rather believe him than a random member on a forum.

Mmm.. maybe the diaries are but you can easily prove a lot of things he says in interviews wrong like dates and such. Let alone that he contradicts himself a lot. 
I'm not saying he is malicious about it because memories fade and he is not a stan like us who thinks about those things everyday, but still...

At the end of the day we also have Madonna on record attributing Express Yourself to Pat Leonard and remembering the VMAs 84 and American Bandstand differently than the actual footage... 

[Erotico 337]

On 7/19/2024 at 11:41 PM, Curtains said:

She also did Queen’s English with him for Jose & Luis.

wonder why Queen's English is not on Spotify , same as Nick Scotti's album....

[Anapausis 6,578]

One thing I know for sure about Shep, @DiegoLCL: he sure regrets his IG post about how "It's a shame that Shame wasn't released" got caught by Paws Down's attention (btw I know who Paws Down actually is, sorry Tavinho), because, even with Step deactivating his Instagram and Paws erasing his post on Tumblr (maybe due to Shep's personal request?) I just can't forget Shep's words...

[deathproof 11,061]

15 hours ago, Anapausis said:

That's why I don't buy for a second the theory Madonna actually hated the early versions of Goodbye to Innocence as Shep stated to his Erotica Dairies, fine @MPowered?

There’s nothing in the erotica diaries that state Madonna hated the early versions of GTI lol

[Anapausis 6,578]

6 minutes ago, deathproof said:

There’s nothing in the erotica diaries that state Madonna hated the early versions of GTI lol

WELL THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR POINTING THIS OUT!!!

I'll stream this in your honour

 

because I still believe M will forever be very much proud of shouting "anoniminity"!!!!

[Blue Jean 16,757]

On 7/20/2024 at 7:13 AM, Prayer said:

Remember "Justify My love" sampled Public Enemy's "Security Of The First World":

Which at the same time sampled this other track:

There was legal drama around "Justify My Love" yeah:

The funny thing about Funky Drummer is that it was sampled a gazillion times by countless people and the drummer themselves received no royalties at all for any of it as they were just a session drummer and paid only a flat fee for that first recording.

[Blue Jean 16,757]

24 minutes ago, deathproof said:

There’s nothing in the erotica diaries that state Madonna hated the early versions of GTI lol

Well she can’t have loved them that much though seeming as she didn’t use them 

[Blue Jean 16,757]

1 hour ago, DiegoLCL said:

At the end of the day we also have Madonna on record attributing Express Yourself to Pat Leonard 

 Where was that? Instagram?

[MPowered 7,699]

10 hours ago, deathproof said:

There’s nothing in the erotica diaries that state Madonna hated the early versions of GTI lol

Quote

Diary Entry #2 October-November 1991
It took about two or three days to write a song from beginning to end. Still, sometimes even after they were done we'd want to change the flow of the song and ask the song a few questions: Where should the chorus hit? Should it be a double chorus? Sometimes Madonna would call me in the middle of the night and say "Shep, I think the chorus should go like this," or "I hate this verse, fix the bass line." Deeper and Deeper was one of those songs she always had a problem with. The middle of the song wasn't working. We tried different bridges and changes, but nothing worked. In the end, Madonna wanted the middle of the song to have a flamenco guitar strumming big-time. I didn't like the idea of taking a Philly house song and putting La Isla Bonita in the middle of it. But that's what she wanted, so that's what she got.

Shep uses the phrase "wasn’t working" to say she (Madonna) or they didn’t like it.

Quote

Diary Entry #3 December 1991
"I hate them." That's what she said to me when we listened to the first bunch of songs we'd recorded. I thought it sounded great because some of the songs had a New York house sound and some of them had an L.A. vibe. "If I had wanted the album to sound like that, I'd have worked with Patrick Leonard in L.A.," she told me. I got the point pretty fast. Madonna wanted Erotica to have a raw edge to it, as if it were recorded in an alley at 123rd street in Harlem. She didn't want some light glossy production to permeate her sound.

Quote

Diary Entry #9 August 15, 1992, Mo's Birthday
One of the tracks, Goodbye To Innocence, just wasn't working. There was something about the song that didn't grab Madonna, so we had to fix it. I worked overnight in my studio and came back to Soundworks with a brand new bass line that seemed to do the trick. Madonna put on headphones and got ready to lay down the vocals for Goodbye To Innocence. But instead of singing the original words, which were written last year, Madonna started toying with the lyrics, singing the words to the lounge-lizard act staple, Fever. At first we thought: "This is cool," and it was. It sounded so good that we decided to take it one step further and actually cover the tune. Too bad no one knew the words. What we needed was a copy of Fever if we were going to record it that day. So, Madonna got on the phone with Seymour Stein at Sire Records, and within an hour, we had the lyric sheets, the Peggy Lee version, and the original version of the song in our hands. I was really impressed by how quickly we got it all. That was the last track on Erotica and we finished mixing it just in time to celebrate another birthday - Madonna's.

How could anyone not read "something about the song didn’t grab Madonna", "the song just wasn’t working" and her changing the song to Fever and later dropping it from the album entirely as her not hating it? 😂😂😂

"Wasn’t working", "Didn’t grab" are very obvious synonyms for "She hated it" as proven by other examples from the diary where Shep used that phrase.

[Roland Barthes 6,078]

12 hours ago, Anapausis said:

Well @Roland Barthes is allegedly a veteran French journalist (I suspect he works for Le Monde Diplomatique).

not le monde diplo but les inrocks and others but i'm ok being called a random forum member, it'd what we all are here after all...except i interviewed Jane Brinton once, Shep's manager then and she said he was full of shit and to this day he still won't go back to music because Madonna did not want to make bedtime stories with him, he thought, quote , that Erotica was gonna be his Thriller that will make him the new in demand super producer. It did not and wanted his revenge with Madonna's following album but she changed her mind and he lost it. The Erotica diaries can't be trusted for one reason : he totally dismisses Tony Shimkin's role in the production of the album just like he wanted to fuck him up with the credits ( he sued him for Vogue in retaliation when Shimkin ended up managing the Salsoul catalogue at blue note) and Madonna sided with Shimkin on this, which he resented. He's still very bitter about Madonna and dismissive.  Plus Brinton told me that a lot of his remixes were done by his sound engineers and she even did some herself (not the biggest names). So yes he's as shady as some random forum members. 

[Blue Jean 16,757]

2 hours ago, MPowered said:

Shep uses the phrase "wasn’t working" to say she (Madonna) or they didn’t like it.

How anyone could not read "something about the song didn’t grab Madonna", "the song just wasn’t working" and her changing the song to Fever and later dropping it from the album entirely as her not hating it. 😂😂😂

"Wasn’t working", "Didn’t grab" are very obvious synonyms for "She hated it" as proven by other examples from the diary where Shep used that phrase.

I like that song for its lyrics but to me it seems obvious why it was dropped. The chorus and hook is weak. Based on the demos it also seems like they kept trying to make it work but it just never did. People knock Fever cos it was a cover but it’s pretty great, especially on The Girlie Show.