Single Reissues Campaign - Causing a Commotion - OUT NOW

[MPowered 7,767]

19 minutes ago, Aiwa08 said:

In my opinion, the original CDs without Into the Groove have a perfect transfer from the digital master tape, while the ones with "Into The Groove" have as a source an analog master tape. 

Would it be possible to upload the original CD? I only have a release with Into the Groove unfortunately. 🥲

[superbu 83]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think it's quite possible that the 7" version of "Lucky Star" on this new download COULD be a recreation.

It's a very good recreation, if so... they seem to have gotten all the edit points perfect. However, the fadeout decays faster on my 45, on the "It's That Girl" tape, and on the audio ripped from my "Immaculate Collection" laserdisc than it does on this new digital version.

To test this, I synced up the download with a dub of my 45 in an audio editor, then muted the download's right stereo channel and muted the vinyl 45's left stereo channel -- so the download was playing in my left ear and the 45 playing in my right. Then I got both tracks at the same volume so the sound was centered in the headphones and listened to them in sync to listen for differences between the channels.

The edit points seem to be perfect, everything seems perfect, until the fadeout. At 3:42, on "star bright," the sound starts to shift towards the stereo channel containing the digital download, and it's quite a bit louder by the time we reach "you make everything all right"... which means the digital version is louder during the fadeout than on the 45. Then at the very tail end of the fade, it suddenly shifts back towards the other channel.

Now, if the download was consistently the same volume or quieter than the vinyl is during the fade, I would think nothing of it -- engineers "help" a fade all the time when remastering tracks, to make the tape hiss less noticeable as the volume gets lower at the end of the song. But the opposite is true in this case... the volume on the digital version fades out (decays) more slowly than on the 45.

And speaking of tape hiss, that's another tipoff: there's no audible tape hiss at end of the song at all, unless you crank up the sound by about 15 decibels. This song was recorded on analogue tape and the volume gets very low at the tail end of the fade. There should be at least some tape hiss audible through headphones during the last couple seconds. There's not. This indicates to me that it's a digitally recreated fade, not a fade originated in the analogue realm.

It's possible there's another explanation for all this, so please tell me if there is.

[Roy 7,901]

23 minutes ago, Aiwa08 said:

In my opinion, the original CDs without Into the Groove have a perfect transfer from the digital master tape, while the ones with "Into The Groove" have as a source an analog master tape. 

Hmmm... I think we should do a comparison for it then. :D

[JustinTimes 978]

Can people check out my topic: I think I have found an officially released edit of Physical Attraction not mentioned anywhere.

 

[MPowered 7,767]

2 minutes ago, superbu said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think it's quite possible that the 7" version of "Lucky Star" on this new download COULD be a recreation.

It's a very good recreation, if so... they seem to have gotten all the edit points perfect. However, the fadeout decays faster on my 45, on the "It's That Girl" tape, and on the audio ripped from my "Immaculate Collection" laserdisc than it does on this new digital version.

To test this, I synced up the download with a dub of my 45 in an audio editor, then muted the download's right stereo channel and muted the vinyl 45's left stereo channel -- so the download was playing in my left ear and the 45 playing in my right. Then I got both tracks at the same volume so the sound was centered in the headphones and listened to them in sync to listen for differences between the channels.

The edit points seem to be perfect, everything seems perfect, until the fadeout. At 3:42, on "star bright," the sound starts to shift towards the stereo channel containing the digital download, and it's quite a bit louder by the time we reach "you make everything all right"... which means the digital version is louder during the fadeout than on the 45. Then at the very tail end of the fade, it suddenly shifts back towards the other channel.

Now, if the download was consistently the same volume or quieter than the vinyl is during the fade, I would think nothing of it -- engineers "help" a fade all the time when remastering tracks, to make the tape hiss less noticeable as the volume gets lower at the end of the song. But the opposite is true in this case... the volume on the digital version fades out (decays) more slowly than on the 45.

And speaking of tape hiss, that's another tipoff: there's no audible tape hiss at end of the song at all, unless you crank up the sound by about 15 decibels. This song was recorded on analogue tape and the volume gets very low at the tail end of the fade. There should be at least some tape hiss audible through headphones during the last couple seconds. There's not. This indicates to me that it's a digitally recreated fade, not a fade originated in the analogue realm.

It's possible there's another explanation for all this, so please tell me if there is.

It’s a remaster. Remaster means: reconstructed from the stems/multitracks. 

However, As far as I’m concerned it is perfect. Even the fade out is. Maybe compare it with the vinyl rip instead.

[Aiwa08 18,457]

36 minutes ago, MPowered said:

Would it be possible to upload the original CD? I only have a release with Into the Groove unfortunately. 🥲

Same here. I only have the one with "Into The Groove" (and the remastered one in 2001). I want to buy an original US CD, but I can't right now.

UPDATE: I've found a Japanese 1st Pressing CD with the "Full Digital" phrase: https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3720245

 

[Harrdust 1,210]

30 minutes ago, superbu said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think it's quite possible that the 7" version of "Lucky Star" on this new download COULD be a recreation.

It's a very good recreation, if so... they seem to have gotten all the edit points perfect. However, the fadeout decays faster on my 45, on the "It's That Girl" tape, and on the audio ripped from my "Immaculate Collection" laserdisc than it does on this new digital version.

To test this, I synced up the download with a dub of my 45 in an audio editor, then muted the download's right stereo channel and muted the vinyl 45's left stereo channel -- so the download was playing in my left ear and the 45 playing in my right. Then I got both tracks at the same volume so the sound was centered in the headphones and listened to them in sync to listen for differences between the channels.

The edit points seem to be perfect, everything seems perfect, until the fadeout. At 3:42, on "star bright," the sound starts to shift towards the stereo channel containing the digital download, and it's quite a bit louder by the time we reach "you make everything all right"... which means the digital version is louder during the fadeout than on the 45. Then at the very tail end of the fade, it suddenly shifts back towards the other channel.

Now, if the download was consistently the same volume or quieter than the vinyl is during the fade, I would think nothing of it -- engineers "help" a fade all the time when remastering tracks, to make the tape hiss less noticeable as the volume gets lower at the end of the song. But the opposite is true in this case... the volume on the digital version fades out (decays) more slowly than on the 45.

And speaking of tape hiss, that's another tipoff: there's no audible tape hiss at end of the song at all, unless you crank up the sound by about 15 decibels. This song was recorded on analogue tape and the volume gets very low at the tail end of the fade. There should be at least some tape hiss audible through headphones during the last couple seconds. There's not. This indicates to me that it's a digitally recreated fade, not a fade originated in the analogue realm.

It's possible there's another explanation for all this, so please tell me if there is.

I can't check right now and I don't even remember the differences on each version but maybe the fade-out originally was done during the mastering phase and they just remastered an unmastered tape and did the fade-out or they just re-created the mix using the full-length master (or multitrack tape). Idk

But I'm glad it sounds perfect, can't wait to listen. 😁

[jemboy1973 670]

36 minutes ago, Aiwa08 said:

Same here. I only have the one with "Into The Groove" (and the remastered one in 2001). I want to buy an original US CD, but I can't right now.

UPDATE: I've found a Japanese 1st Pressing CD with the "Full Digital" phrase: https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3720245

 

I've only ever hear the Into The Groove Version. The link here says invalid. Well I think it's the link 

[tiger 1,935]

37 minutes ago, Aiwa08 said:

Same here. I only have the one with "Into The Groove" (and the remastered one in 2001). I want to buy an original US CD, but I can't right now.

UPDATE: I've found a Japanese 1st Pressing CD with the "Full Digital" phrase: https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3720245

 

 

[Aiwa08 18,457]

@tiger I'm sorry. I can't remember every upload made here. I'm not a human computer. Thanks for the link.

[scamper 2,038]

I have the original USA CD with the "Full digital recording" writing on it. If I can help with that, just tell me

[Roy 7,901]

8 minutes ago, scamper said:

I have the original USA CD with the "Full digital recording" writing on it. If I can help with that, just tell me

I'd like to have it. :D

[scamper 2,038]

14 minutes ago, Roy said:

I'd like to have it. :D

I'm not at home now. I'm out for lunch and after that I will go to see "Barbie". But when I get home I'll make a rip of it in wav

[thegoldencalf 12,956]

3 hours ago, superbu said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think it's quite possible that the 7" version of "Lucky Star" on this new download COULD be a recreation.

It's a very good recreation, if so... they seem to have gotten all the edit points perfect. However, the fadeout decays faster on my 45, on the "It's That Girl" tape, and on the audio ripped from my "Immaculate Collection" laserdisc than it does on this new digital version.

To test this, I synced up the download with a dub of my 45 in an audio editor, then muted the download's right stereo channel and muted the vinyl 45's left stereo channel -- so the download was playing in my left ear and the 45 playing in my right. Then I got both tracks at the same volume so the sound was centered in the headphones and listened to them in sync to listen for differences between the channels.

The edit points seem to be perfect, everything seems perfect, until the fadeout. At 3:42, on "star bright," the sound starts to shift towards the stereo channel containing the digital download, and it's quite a bit louder by the time we reach "you make everything all right"... which means the digital version is louder during the fadeout than on the 45. Then at the very tail end of the fade, it suddenly shifts back towards the other channel.

Now, if the download was consistently the same volume or quieter than the vinyl is during the fade, I would think nothing of it -- engineers "help" a fade all the time when remastering tracks, to make the tape hiss less noticeable as the volume gets lower at the end of the song. But the opposite is true in this case... the volume on the digital version fades out (decays) more slowly than on the 45.

And speaking of tape hiss, that's another tipoff: there's no audible tape hiss at end of the song at all, unless you crank up the sound by about 15 decibels. This song was recorded on analogue tape and the volume gets very low at the tail end of the fade. There should be at least some tape hiss audible through headphones during the last couple seconds. There's not. This indicates to me that it's a digitally recreated fade, not a fade originated in the analogue realm.

It's possible there's another explanation for all this, so please tell me if there is.

If the edit points match perfectly it means it’s the original. Nobody at Rhino would spend the time to perfectly match it. If anything they would fix it to sounds more seamless. Oftentimes the fade outs vary from source to source

3 hours ago, MPowered said:

It’s a remaster. Remaster means: reconstructed from the stems/multitracks. 

However, As far as I’m concerned it is perfect. Even the fade out is. Maybe compare it with the vinyl rip instead.

Remaster does not mean reconstructed by any means. 

[MPowered 7,767]

1 minute ago, thegoldencalf said:

Remaster does not mean reconstructed by any means. 

Then feel free to give an explanation what it does mean, because I keep hearing different things.

[Blue Jean 17,118]

3 hours ago, MPowered said:

It’s a remaster. Remaster means: reconstructed from the stems/multitracks. 

Remaster doesn’t mean that 

[Blue Jean 17,118]

1 minute ago, MPowered said:

Then feel free to give an explanation what it does mean, because I keep hearing different things.

https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/what-is-mastering.html#

[steady75 10,297]

Working from stems and changing volume and levels and echo’s and reverbs etc is a remix even if none of the original sounds and music is changed. 
 

A remaster is when you take the song in its fully formed “bounced” form and apply eq, compressions, limiters exciters and the like to change the feel. Boost the bass, give the high end some sparkle and air, dampen any thing that sticks out sonically like muddy or pointed sounds. 
 

Mastering all depends on the quality of a mix in the first place. 
 

Ideas are the recipe

Production is chosing the ingredients 

Mixing is the cook off

Mastering is the presentation 

 

That’s how I’ve always looked at it. 

[Prayer 16,691]

I very much doubt they took the effort to reconstruct anything mark by mark and doing it perfectly.

I mean, the last time they tried to reconstruct something we got... this:

And this:

And this!

It "Lucky Star" 7'' Edit sounds like the original, it's the original from one of the sources remastered and that's it.

[clkelley39 1,076]

6 hours ago, Aiwa08 said:

The 7'' Remix of Borderline is just the original 7'' version. The one on It's that girl cassette is still exclusive to that release.

No - the 7" Remix of "Borderline" that is currently on streaming platforms is not the original 7" Remix. This was discussed in this forum when it was uploaded. 

 

The original 7" Remix does not have cowbell and can be found on the 7" single, The Immaculate Collection VHS/laserdisc/DVD and the Japan CD Singles Box set. 

[Ziploc 2,570]

12 hours ago, Roy said:

Yeah but even some 7" edits like Lucky Star, Holiday and Everybody, are edited poorly. IC at least makes the edits sound cohesive... minus the early endings.

I'm with you on this one @RoyAdmittedly I hated all the IC mixes at first but I think CFY, MG, EY and LS are superior. 

[Ziploc 2,570]

12 hours ago, Aiwa08 said:

Please, can you point the time of those? Because I've never heard that. Looks like you are talking about Celebration edits or not original 7'' versions. 

PS: Take your time @Roy It's 5:50 in Spain and I'm going to sleep now. Good Night.

Not sure about the others but The Luck Star edit points are ~2:02 & ~3:08.

Intriguingly, the edit used for the video has the issue at 2:09 but the one at 3:16 is 'fixed' (the timings are a little later because of the extra bit of silence at the start of the video) 

And another titbit, as @Holgerpointed out, it has a different intro to the 7" edit. 

 

[JustinTimes 978]

1 hour ago, clkelley39 said:

No - the 7" Remix of "Borderline" that is currently on streaming platforms is not the original 7" Remix. This was discussed in this forum when it was uploaded. 

 

The original 7" Remix does not have cowbell and can be found on the 7" single, The Immaculate Collection VHS/laserdisc/DVD and the Japan CD Singles Box set. 

So what version is on Spotify! Is it from It's That Girl cassette?

[Would You Like To Try 9,433]

1 minute ago, JustinTimes said:

So what version is on Spotify! Is it from It's That Girl cassette?

Celebration version

[Aiwa08 18,457]

36 minutes ago, Curator said:

Not sure about the others but The Luck Star edit points are ~2:02 & ~3:08.

Yes, they are the edit points. I know what you mean. But I don’t see the problem. They are like all the thousands of album edits made to be played on radio stations. I thought it was worse (cut voices, double kicks). Obviously they weren't made with the stems, just "cut and paste".