Very honestly, has Taylor Swift surpassed Madonna all-around?

[Redha DBL 7,863]

35 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

 But in the longer term I think it will make her “cultural impact” seem less significant. 

She has 0 cultural impact. Standing with a guitar singing about your ex has the cultutal impact of a pigeon on a roof. Shania Twain had way more charisma and personnality than her. She's the blandest succesful singer ever. 

[NRMX 5,654]

28 minutes ago, Redha DBL said:

She has 0 cultural impact. Standing with a guitar singing about your ex has the cultutal impact of a pigeon on a roof. Shania Twain had way more charisma and personnality than her. She's the blandest succesful singer ever. 

[Ian 2,453]

23 minutes ago, NRMX said:

^this horsey right here has more personality than tayloo,  fo sho'

[Ian 2,453]

5 hours ago, androiduser said:

maybe, but he hasn't surpassed him in touring numbers etc. With Taylor, it's not just the charts.

right it's also smoke and mirrors!

and empty bloated air streams a.k.a. fake sales "album equivalents" paid for by the record company  obvi

[Blue Jean 17,144]

3 hours ago, Ian said:

right it's also smoke and mirrors!

and empty bloated air streams a.k.a. fake sales "album equivalents" paid for by the record company  obvi

I really am not a swiftie but I don’t believe for a second her streams are “paid for” by the record company. There’s just no way. Her popularity is undeniable. And she’s also selling loads of physical vinyls.

[androiduser 2,891]

4 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

I really am not a swiftie but I don’t believe for a second her streams are “paid for” by the record company. There’s just no way. Her popularity is undeniable. And she’s also selling loads of physical vinyls.

I mean, first she's accused of having insane fans who spend all their days streaming her music and spending tons of money on her tickets and merchandise, but then, at the same time, she has to buy streams and "nobody is playing her music loud in the cars". I mean, which is it? The insane fans are not insane enough to play her music with rolled down car windows? Make it make sense.

[Blue Jean 17,144]

3 hours ago, androiduser said:

I mean, first she's accused of having insane fans who spend all their days streaming her music and spending tons of money on her tickets and merchandise, but then, at the same time, she has to buy streams and "nobody is playing her music loud in the cars". I mean, which is it? The insane fans are not insane enough to play her music with rolled down car windows? Make it make sense.

How do people determine that thing about cars? Is it because her fans are all riding horses?

It’s one thing to dislike her (believe me I do), but to pretend she’s not a megastar at this point is just silly. She has reached the Madonna level of fame and popularity. She may even surpass her. I don’t want it to be true. But it is.

[JustinTimes 978]

16 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

How do people determine that thing about cars? Is it because her fans are all riding horses?

It’s one thing to dislike her (believe me I do), but to pretend she’s not a megastar at this point is just silly. She has reached the Madonna level of fame and popularity. She may even surpass her. I don’t want it to be true. But it is.

She's not a megastar at all, she's having her moment, just like Lady Gaga and others before her. She's just very lucky, she has an amazing team who knows what they're doing, and as I mentioned before, music is consumed differently these days. Sitting in bed listening to a song on your phone isn't really a pure sale, it's kinda fake in my opinion but it is what it is. 

Madonna is beyond a megastar, she's iconic and legendary and her crown won't be taken away by someone with a personality of a cabbage, no matter how many records of Madonna's she's desperate to break.

End of....

[Aiwa08 18,464]

20 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

She has reached the Madonna level of fame and popularity. She may even surpass her. I don’t want it to be true. But it is.

No joke, I once read in a news magazine in the late 80s that Madonna was, quite literally, more universally recognized than the Bible.

[Boombox90 4,386]

Let’s be real here.

Madonna never had as many people liking her as Taylor Swift does.

Taylor is a safe artist, so that’s expected, but like her or not, she’s a megastar and so is Lady Gaga (🤢).

[Blue Jean 17,144]

1 hour ago, JustinTimes said:

She's not a megastar at all, she's having her moment, just like Lady Gaga and others before her. She's just very lucky, she has an amazing team who knows what they're doing, and as I mentioned before, music is consumed differently these days. Sitting in bed listening to a song on your phone isn't really a pure sale, it's kinda fake in my opinion but it is what it is. 

She has thousands of people outside her shows listening to her because they cant get tickets. At award shows the cameras constantly show her reactions in the audience. After the Super Bowl she was the main headline. After the Kamala/Trump debate she was the main headline…. If that isn’t a superstar I don’t know what is? She is way bigger than Gaga or Katy Perry were at this point.

1 hour ago, JustinTimes said:

Madonna is beyond a megastar, she's iconic and legendary and her crown won't be taken away by someone with a personality of a cabbage, no matter how many records of Madonna's she's desperate to break.

End of....

I never said Madonna’s crown will be taken. Taylor is so different to Madonna, she is in a very different category to the Queen of Pop. It’s like saying Ed Sheeran will take MJ’s throne. I mean, for one, he’d shit on it. 

Agree with the cabbage bit, she’s a geek but at the end of the day , that’s what basic white girls love about her. She’s relatable to them. Its sad but we can’t deny her star power.

[Blue Jean 17,144]

1 hour ago, Boombox90 said:

 

Madonna never had as many people liking her as Taylor Swift does.

Not sure I can agree with that. In the 80’s she did. I think in the 90’s she became too controversial to maintain that same universal appeal. Taylor on the other will always be bland and so she won’t alienate her fanbase. The only risk is that people will get bored of her.

[TheGoth 698]

It's a ridiculous statement. It's comparative to saying Banksy has surpassed Picasso or Boris Johnson has surpassed JFK. They're not comparitive at all and there would be no point in trying to surpass Madonna because that would just mean repeating what she did in her career so far - and why would anyone when it's already been done?

I come from a more alternative side where my grounding in music, art, literature etc would be classed as obscure at times, and there are always new bands being hailed as the new Sisters of Mercy, or the new Smiths or Siousxie. The problem is those artists set that template around the same time as Madonna did and broke that ground for themselves. New artists today just aren't breaking new ground in a way that creates any kind of cultural shift. 

Madonna's high points made cultural impacts because no one had accomplished it before in such a mainstream way. You might be looking at the commercial success, but what risks are really being taken? Kate Bush with Wuthering Heights was a risk because it was never done before. Queen with Bohemian Rhapsody - big risk that paid off. Grace Jones! Bowie. Culture Club, Erasure, Tina Turner and Cher. They created that landscape. Whatever many artists attempt now is only possible because of the doors that were opened by those before them, but Madonna set that bar on her own terms by taking the path less travelled and calculating those risks against the rewards. Madonna is and was a fluke in the matrix. A one time thing and we'll never see that again, so we should be glad she's still here. She said it herself;

"I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Amen."

[JustinTimes 978]

24 minutes ago, TheGoth said:

It's a ridiculous statement. It's comparative to saying Banksy has surpassed Picasso or Boris Johnson has surpassed JFK. They're not comparitive at all and there would be no point in trying to surpass Madonna because that would just mean repeating what she did in her career so far - and why would anyone when it's already been done?

I come from a more alternative side where my grounding in music, art, literature etc would be classed as obscure at times, and there are always new bands being hailed as the new Sisters of Mercy, or the new Smiths or Siousxie. The problem is those artists set that template around the same time as Madonna did and broke that ground for themselves. New artists today just aren't breaking new ground in a way that creates any kind of cultural shift. 

Madonna's high points made cultural impacts because no one had accomplished it before in such a mainstream way. You might be looking at the commercial success, but what risks are really being taken? Kate Bush with Wuthering Heights was a risk because it was never done before. Queen with Bohemian Rhapsody - big risk that paid off. Grace Jones! Bowie. Culture Club, Erasure, Tina Turner and Cher. They created that landscape. Whatever many artists attempt now is only possible because of the doors that were opened by those before them, but Madonna set that bar on her own terms by taking the path less travelled and calculating those risks against the rewards. Madonna is and was a fluke in the matrix. A one time thing and we'll never see that again, so we should be glad she's still here. She said it herself;

"I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Amen."

Actually, Jesus said he was the Alpha and Omega, but I do agree with what you said.

[MPowered 7,772]

5 hours ago, Blue Jean said:

I really am not a swiftie but I don’t believe for a second her streams are “paid for” by the record company. There’s just no way. Her popularity is undeniable. And she’s also selling loads of physical vinyls.

That is very true. However, a lot of extremely obsessive fanbases (mainly Chinese, Japanese and Korean) use certain software (so called "streaming farms") to stream song or music in an endless loop but with quadrupled streams. Taylor has these obsessive fans, especially in the aforementioned countries. Her marketing is modeled and shaped after that of the KPop industry, which is highly manufactured and calculated in every regard, even the private lives of their artists.

[Blue Jean 17,144]

43 minutes ago, MPowered said:

That is very true. However, a lot of extremely obsessive fanbases (mainly Chinese, Japanese and Korean) use certain software (so called "streaming farms") to stream song or music in an endless loop but with quadrupled streams. Taylor has these obsessive fans, especially in the aforementioned countries. Her marketing is modeled and shaped after that of the KPop industry, which is highly manufactured and calculated in every regard, even the private lives of their artists.

I’m sure these things are true. But no matter what you factor into the equation it’s pretty obvious some Madonna fans here are in denial about her level of success/stardom which , no matter how it’s been achieved, is undeniable. She is absolutely this generations biggest artist.

[Anapausis 6,648]

I guess some people are TRULY enchanted (taylor's version).flac that I have been absent from this thread since opening page.

To keep the Speak Now (Taylor's Version) references, I consider that better than revenge (this time not taylor's version but scooter's version).mp3.

[PlayPause 2,891]

They're both very clever hard-working artists/businesswomen running their careers at different times in terms of popularity peak, context, media, etc. To fully grasp if Taylor surpasses M in any way, we'd rather wait a couple more decades, in fact. This doesn't mean her actual success isn't real at all. The figures are astounding. The money she makes and the influence she has within the industry are already huge. The cultural impact has to have more longevity in order to become a staple.

[SecretProject 521]

5 hours ago, Boombox90 said:

Let’s be real here.

Madonna never had as many people liking her as Taylor Swift does.

Taylor is a safe artist, so that’s expected, but like her or not, she’s a megastar and so is Lady Gaga (🤢).

Which is why I'll always consider her as simply a product not an artist. I like my popstars to have some edge.

[luckypierre78 307]

15 hours ago, Redha DBL said:

As for Taylors shows and ticket sales, most of today kids are totally dumb when it comes to their idols and music, they just worship singers that are totally bland and safe and they just follow the mass. They just don't like original, one of a kind and  adventurous artists. They are the safest generation ever. The total opposite of kids from the 80's who were searching for rebels artist who were pushing boundaries. Today the safest the most successful and Taylor Swift is the perfect product, her fans don't even have to think or have an opinion. The girl is standing with her guitar singing about her ex boyfriend for the 560th time and these boring and predictable kids are in admiration... That is pathetic. Look at the charts... The biggest sellers are now or totally def rappers rapping about their bitches big asses or their money, or bland singers who take no risk and are safer than your grandmother... Totally uninspired and uninspiring generation. It's all about looking perfect on Instagram but they have 0 artist creativity. 

I would say Charli XCX and the success of the hyperpop album Brat is in direct opposition to this.  We have Billie Eilish essentially giving jazz vocals and being one of the biggest singers in the world who makes music that you can barely categorize what genre it's in.  We have Kacey Musgraves blurring the lines between disco, country, pop, and folk.  Chappell Roan is a lesbian drag queen.  Beyonce made a country album where one of the songs samples one of the biggest 90's rave anthems of all time - Underworld's Born Slippy.NUXX.  Even that last sentence is INSANE.

There will always be bottom of the barrel garbage in pop music (Jennifer Lopez - not to say that I don't like some of her music, but man she cannot sing and her songs are vapid).  There will always be high quality but "safe" pop (Dua Lipa, Sabrina Carpenter) because the music industry is a business and things need to be profitable.  Taylor Swift and Olivia Rodrigo might be on the more commercial side of things but their deeply personal, emotional and insightful lyrics set them apart.  I would say the current state of pop music is almost the most inventive and innovative it's been since the pre-electronic/post-electronic divide of the late 70's-early 80's.  The reason why is likely because kids today grew up downloading/streaming whatever they wanted and had the entire history of music available with a few strokes of the keyboard.  So artists nowadays are reflecting that by blending genres to the point where straight up "pop" music is hard to come by.  The kids are alright.  

[bedtimestory 768]

People like to hate on Tay cause she's too famous and successful. We should be happy that the females are on top of the music industry now!

And yes, Madonna will always be the BEST! (for me) because she is the BLUEPRINT on how to be a popstar. There will never be another Madonna ever! Not even Gaga or Chappel.

[Jitterbug 3,521]

On 9/12/2024 at 8:30 PM, scamper said:

Well, as I said, I guess it depends of where you live but at least where I live I've never listened her on the radio (apart of shake it off) and I talk at work with people in her 20's and for them Taylor is like Madonna... A woman with success but they don't know one single song from them. In fact from Taylor they just know "Shake it up" and from Madonna just "Material girl". But ask them about Shakira (for saying one) and all of them think she sells more than Madonna in the 80's or Taylor now.

Maybe where you live they are all day playing Taylor everywhere... That's why is very difficult to know the truth. As @prayer said before here all they talk is about the money she makes and the admiration is for how she gets the money, not for her work. About what you say about Lady Gaga or Britney... I've listened to them everywhere at the time they start to get famous and they still play them on the radios something that I can't say about Taylor (and as I said, I'm talking about the reallity where I live. Maybe in the rest of the world is completly different).

Let’s be honest, I’m from Spain too and I don’t like Taylor Swift, but it’s very hypocritical to say that Shake It Off is her only well known song. She is seen on TV multiple times, she is heard on the radio, supermarkets, malls and shops. For example: Lover, We Are Never Getting Back Together, I Knew You Were Trouble, Blank Space…

The fact that we don’t like her music and we prefer Madonna all over doesn’t make her irrelevant or a one-hit wonder, let’s be honest.

And please don’t come for me, I’m not a TS stan, I prefer B-Day Song, Score, Trust no Bitch and Spanish Lesson over any of her hit songs.

[scamper 2,039]

But I'm not saying is irrelevant... I just said that here in Spain she's not as important as Madonna was.

I lived the 80's and I can say how important Madonna was at the time, not because I read it on Internet, because everybody listened her music. I've looked for the most listening artists in Spotify in Spain in 2023 and TS was 134... That makes her be the greatest star here in Spain? I doubt it... As I said, here people prefer other artists and she's known but sHERE she's not as important as people are trying to say. She's a known artist and that's all.

 

[androiduser 2,891]

1 hour ago, scamper said:

 I've looked for the most listening artists in Spotify in Spain in 2023 and TS was 134... That makes her be the greatest star here in Spain?

 

but WAIT, we've already established in this very topic that Spotify numbers are inflated and manipulated, and we can't use them to determine somebody's success.... The artists in Spain ahead of Taylor probably paid for streams, and their crazy fans inflated streaming numbers Do 133 people ahead of her have cultural significance? Is their music played loudly in cars?? So many questions...

[scamper 2,039]

1 hour ago, androiduser said:

but WAIT, we've already established in this very topic that Spotify numbers are inflated and manipulated, and we can't use them to determine somebody's success.... The artists in Spain ahead of Taylor probably paid for streams, and their crazy fans inflated streaming numbers Do 133 people ahead of her have cultural significance? Is their music played loudly in cars?? So many questions...

Wow, didn't know the line "played loudly in cars" was so important... I guess now I can say that I'm as relevant as TS... If that's just what you have read of what I said, that's OK for me.