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[Prayer 16,630]

36 minutes ago, lennyleonard said:

From a certain point in her career on, she defaulted to what became the industry norm: the actual writers getting only part of the credits, or sometimes none at all (Max Blagg with Sky Fits Heaven, for example; they settled for him being paid for letting her use his lines, and getting no writing credit, but she couldn't release it as a single) in a sort of a "do you want to have a song of yours in a record that's gonna do numbers and be attached to a big name, or not?" kind of deal... not saying that it's in bad faith, but... when basically all the powerful and prominent singers in the industry do this, why would any of them try to be the fair one, and give up on some royalties' bucks?

Curtiss Maldoon (writer of Sepheryn, which was the basis for ROL) once said: "I was a bit annoyed at first because Madonna wanted 30 percent just for changing a couple of lines, but then I realized that 15 percent of millions is a lot better than 100 percent of nothing. I did very well out of it. It's been a life-changing experience. I'd say I'm financially secure for at least the next five to 10 years as a result of 15 percent of one track by Madonna."

From a business perspective, giving up on (at least some part of) their writing credits is not only tempting (in the case of starting artists, it's promised as a way to help launch their careers), and for olders ones, like Curtiss Maldoon, it's a source of income. I mean, we're long past the days when albums sales actually made the bulk (or any lol) of the money, and what they make from streams is actually offensive. Since the most money for these big artists was made through touring (which does not make a big profitable margin as it did 1 or 2 decades ago), I think that compensates for that, though... don't know how it works in other countries, but I know that here in Brazil you need to submit a form with the songs played/sung, so that they calculate how much you have to pay for the writers... on a long thread about the TGS concerts here, they mentioned that for just that minute and something that she sang The Girl From Ipanema, Tom Jobim was paid a good amount of money... and considering that it's usually calculated by the attendance, you see that replacing I Will Survive and DCFMA for EY and Music in the Rio concert was not only an artistic, but a business choice as well...

Sorry, went on many tangents here, but it's because this writing credit debates usually get to my mind... just because big artists have their names on the credits (and sometimes before the people who actually did the bulk of the work) it doesn't mean a lot... is it ethical that M does this? Very likely not. Is she the only one or was she the first to do this? Absolutely not. Is the music industry going to change to tendency? Also not. If anything, it might actually get "worse".

You said it, more than just herself it was the way the industry evolved, which if of course maybe not the most ethical thing in the world but an agreement between two parts is an agreement in the end. They're not forcing the songwriter to sign any paper. Like any other industry, those with power never get the shorter end of the stick. On the other hand: you're Madonna, Beyoncé, you name it, you've worked your ass off all your life to get where you are, what you bring to the table is yourself, your brand. And yes, a 15% of a lot is still more than a 100% of nothing. Sometimes that writing credit for an unknown songwriter can lead to a profitable songwriting career, others can amount to nothing. It's tricky, but the whole music industry is, let's be honest. And for songwriters is a dog's life.

What's funniest is everyone s**ts on "MDNA" for that (the ghost songwriting or adding credits and percentages) when it was already happening on the "Ray Of Light" album: Susannah Melvoin not only officially co-wrote "Candy Perfume Girl", but also "Swim", but never got a co-writing credit for that one. But hey, no one dares to s**t on that album, of course. Selective narrative, I guess.

[Anapausis 6,605]

MDNA is just the ugly duckling in Madonna's discography. Sooner or later, it'll turn itself into a gorgeous swan...

...And an album what gave us I'm Addicted, Gang Bang, Love Spent and Beautiful Killer (damn even Best Friend, why not?) deserves some flowers at all.

Worth of mention is that Girl Gone Wild is one of Madonna's songs that I most can relate to, and y'all know it by heart.

[MisterMistere 870]

1 hour ago, Prayer said:

You said it, more than just herself it was the way the industry evolved, which if of course maybe not the most ethical thing in the world but an agreement between two parts is an agreement in the end. They're not forcing the songwriter to sign any paper. Like any other industry, those with power never get the shorter end of the stick. On the other hand: you're Madonna, Beyoncé, you name it, you've worked your ass off all your life to get where you are, what you bring to the table is yourself, your brand. And yes, a 15% of a lot is still more than a 100% of nothing. Sometimes that writing credit for an unknown songwriter can lead to a profitable songwriting career, others can amount to nothing. It's tricky, but the whole music industry is, let's be honest. And for songwriters is a dog's life.

What's funniest is everyone s**ts on "MDNA" for that (the ghost songwriting or adding credits and percentages) when it was already happening on the "Ray Of Light" album: Susannah Melvoin not only officially co-wrote "Candy Perfume Girl", but also "Swim", but never got a co-writing credit for that one. But hey, no one dares to s**t on that album, of course. Selective narrative, I guess.

To me this comparison of the processes between the 2 albums is quite weak. Is true 'Ray of Light' has many tracks not originally penned by her, but the history behind the 1998 record was revealed way more complex than the one for Mdna. She literally discarded a worth of full album material wrote with Leonard, Nowels and Babyface to explore the new Orbit road (the Demo Assembly is a good witness); she adapted many already written tracks to new and different songs trying to fit the lyrics in brand-new music files (Drowned World, Has To Be...); she has destroyed and reconstructed the ROL project many times, listening & relistening, even with Orbit's collaboration (the 'Sky Fits Heaven' work in progress version is way different than the final one). And on... I'm not sure she worked that hard on Mdna from what's been told and what we heard. And to be clear, I say this also realizing ROL is not my favourite album and Mdna not my least favourite one.

[missberic 1,170]

I get overly deffensive about tracks I love that are despised by the fandom, BUT I genuinely CANNOT understand people who praise generic, dated and childish songs like Some Girls and Beautiful Killer but then dish on Superstar and Turn Up The Radio

TUTR has one of my favorite Madonna bridges of the last 20 years! And Superstar's beat just reminds me of 'Bend and Snap' from Legally Blonde the Musical lol I love it

[Prayer 16,630]

40 minutes ago, MisterMistere said:

To me this comparison of the processes between the 2 albums is quite weak. Is true 'Ray of Light' has many tracks not originally penned by her, but the history behind the 1998 record was revealed way more complex than the one for Mdna. She literally discarded a worth of full album material wrote with Leonard, Nowels and Babyface to explore the new Orbit road (the Demo Assembly is a good witness); she adapted many already written tracks to new and different songs trying to fit the lyrics in brand-new music files (Drowned World, Has To Be...); she has destroyed and reconstructed the ROL project many times, listening & relistening, even with Orbit's collaboration (the 'Sky Fits Heaven' work in progress version is way different than the final one). And on... I'm not sure she worked that hard on Mdna from what's been told and what we heard. And to be clear, I say this also realizing ROL is not my favourite album and Mdna not my least favourite one.

But I wasn't comparing both albums on themselves. Of course she worked way harder on "ROL". I was just saying the shady credit things, one of the arguments usually used against "MDNA", was already happening in well beloved albums like "Ray Of Light".

[Adonna 20,672]

So any news on the next digital/streaming release?

[Anapausis 6,605]

2 minutes ago, Adonna said:

So any news on the next digital/streaming release?

I 2nd THIS

[Aiwa08 18,405]

4 minutes ago, missberic said:

I get overly deffensive about tracks I love that are despised by the fandom, BUT I genuinely CANNOT understand people who praise generic, dated and childish songs like Some Girls and Beautiful Killer but then dish on Superstar and Turn Up The Radio

TUTR has one of my favorite Madonna bridges of the last 20 years! And Superstar's beat just reminds me of 'Bend and Snap' from Legally Blonde the Musical lol I love it

Well, we're Madonna fans—probably the fanbase with the most diverse tastes. I've met people who love Like a Virgin but hate Erotica, or others who adore American Life but aren't fond of Like a Prayer. We're not discussing personal preferences here, we're discussing why an album might be criticized for its production style when earlier albums made in the same way were not criticized and were highly acclaimed.

 

[Anapausis 6,605]

@missberic do you do despise Beautiful Killer...? Oh cher, you'll never be Alain Delon... (Btw I L-U-V TUTR, shame it wasn't performed at encore of MDNAT in between LAP and Celebration when Get Together would be awesome to fit where it was actual TUTR's place in tour...)

[MPowered 7,734]

I'm sorry but Superstar is indefensible. There is not a single aspect about this song that isn’t cringeworthy. 

[Sultrysully 2,899]

16 minutes ago, MPowered said:

I'm sorry but Superstar is indefensible. There is not a single aspect about this song that isn’t cringeworthy. 

It has good harmonies.  And Lolahol.  

[gafuller 1,678]

27 minutes ago, MPowered said:

I'm sorry but Superstar is indefensible. There is not a single aspect about this song that isn’t cringeworthy. 

I personally love it. Found it to be one of the warmer songs on the album and fun despite the awful lyrics lol

[Would You Like To Try 9,420]

With all this abundance of MDNA talk a renewed Girl Gone Wild single with the radio edits would be nice 

Girl gone wild radio edit and the Justin cognito radio edit and maybe something else I could be missing

[vncsmoraes 1,300]

26 minutes ago, Sultrysully said:

It has good harmonies.  And Lolahol.  

I absolutely love the way she delivers "you are per-fect just the way that you are", it's the one part of the song I like.

[Anapausis 6,605]

7 minutes ago, Would You Like To Try said:

With all this abundance of MDNA talk a renewed Girl Gone Wild single with the radio edits would be nice 

Girl gone wild radio edit and the Justin cognito radio edit and maybe something else I could be missing

Shame single's still under Interscope...

[Would You Like To Try 9,420]

 

 

[Alpha 1,896]

59 minutes ago, MPowered said:

I'm sorry but Superstar is indefensible. There is not a single aspect about this song that isn’t cringeworthy. 

I never understood how people could hate Superstar and Shoo-bee-doo yet cream themselves over a 7" edit of Cherish. Literally Superstar is the same damn song as Cherish just released when people couldn't have a nostalgic attachment the way they could to the 80s.

[Anapausis 6,605]

7 minutes ago, Would You Like To Try said:

 

 

All 36 tracks available here in Rebeca Andrade's hometown...

5 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I never understood how people could hate Superstar and Shoo-bee-doo yet cream themselves over a 7" edit of Cherish. Literally Superstar is the same damn song as Cherish just released when people couldn't have a nostalgic attachment the way they could to the 80s.

Well you can accuse me of saying bullshit, that's pretty fair...

[Drum Dub 1,938]

Is CAC coming next?  Do the web code experts in here have any news? 

[Anapausis 6,605]

2 minutes ago, Drum Dub said:

Is CAC coming next?  Do the web code experts in here have any news? 

Ask @Karma cause gal got both the moves and the notion...

[Aiwa08 18,405]

41 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I never understood how people could hate Superstar and Shoo-bee-doo yet cream themselves over a 7" edit of Cherish. Literally Superstar is the same damn song as Cherish just released when people couldn't have a nostalgic attachment the way they could to the 80s.

I generally agree with you on everything, but comparing Superstar with Cherish, in my opinion, is like comparing Express Yourself with Jimmy, Jimmy.

One thing is certain in this universe: there are no two Madonna fans with exactly the same tastes (but I like Shoo-bee-doo very much).

[Would You Like To Try 9,420]

10 minutes ago, Drum Dub said:

Is CAC coming next?  Do the web code experts in here have any news? 

I'm peeing myself at the thought of it of excitement 

[Would You Like To Try 9,420]

32 minutes ago, Anapausis said:

Ask @Karma cause gal got both the moves and the notion...

Deathproof knows best in this case but he must not want to give the info right now... anyway Deathproof laugh at this comment if the single doesn't have the Movie House Edit lol

[Adonna 20,672]

51 minutes ago, Aiwa08 said:

I generally agree with you on everything, but comparing Superstar with Cherish, in my opinion, is like comparing Express Yourself with Jimmy, Jimmy.

One thing is certain in this universe: there are no two Madonna fans with exactly the same tastes (but I like Shoo-bee-doo very much).

Yeah, I have no issue with fans having different opinions about songs. The fan base is quite diverse and that's why Madonna is so popular.  Therefore, this is why I think she is so damn popular and still doing pretty damn well for herself.  For me, I don't need to have every freakin' version of the same song, especially if it's just a fade or cut short like some 7 inch singles.  As long as I have the full version and the differential remixes, I'm fine. It's not the end of the world for me if every one of these mixes and edits aren't available on digital/streaming platforms.  Still, It's pretty impressive to me how much of her catalog is available when most other artists aren't even close to having their complete catalog online. I also have the mind set that some things should be left to physical releases. There needs to be a bit of exclusivity to some of her work too.  This only helps her being more sought after.  It always gives us something to look forward when they slow drip some things because we know something else will be coming along again.  Of course, I nearly have everything in my own collection of physical and digital collections. If it's not available officially, you can always find it on the internet somewhere. Anyway, I am so glad to be a fan of Madonna's, because she's given me YEARS of enjoyment and she still does.  At this point, I don't expect hit song or albums. If it happens, GREAT, but so many years with so many great albums, she can't go wrong in my book.  I try not to sweat the small stuff, because she can drop dead tomorrow, and I would feel she had a very long, incredible and successful career. So many people came before and after he and they haven't even begun to scratch the surface that she has.  There are only just a few iconic stars like Madonna and even still, she's in a world class of her own.

[animalinstinct 2,196]

50 minutes ago, Drum Dub said:

Is CAC coming next?  Do the web code experts in here have any news? 

I’m keeping everything crossed for CAC.

If they stick with the same release dates, It was released on 25th August 1987, so should come next Sunday.