Madonna's Spotify Progress

[DiegoLCL 5,698]

I need Music to go viral. I love 4 Minutes andd workship Hung Up, don't get me wrong, but Music should be her biggest 2000s hit, the motherfucker still fresh today.

Not that much to 100M, Let's gooo.

[MikeyK 960]

3 hours ago, DiegoLCL said:

I need Music to go viral. I love 4 Minutes andd workship Hung Up, don't get me wrong, but Music should be her biggest 2000s hit, the motherfucker still fresh today.

Not that much to 100M, Let's gooo.

It’s almost shocking how low its engagement is these days considering how big it was. Doesn’t even seem to get much love from y2k/00s nostalgia.

[adirondak 1,955]

Music is one of my favorite Madonna songs! It sounded so innovative at the time. And The Drowned World Tour brought it up 2 levels.

[Alpha 1,896]

1 hour ago, MikeyK said:

It’s almost shocking how low its engagement is these days considering how big it was. Doesn’t even seem to get much love from y2k/00s nostalgia.

Because for some reason the narrative changed making it seem as if she only had hits in the 80s. 

[adirondak 1,955]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Because for some reason the narrative changed making it seem as if she only had hits in the 80s. 

I just think her hits in the 80s are the most easily digestible. The lyrics are breezy, the sound is pure pop, the tone is fun, and she’s not introducing new kinds of instrumentation. Although she had hits in the 90s and beyond, the sounds were many times more experimental. 

[Debord 723]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Because for some reason the narrative changed making it seem as if she only had hits in the 80s. 

I wouldn't say that, Hung Up and 4 Minutes are two of her biggest streaming songs, Confessions is one of her biggest albums. The sad fact is that for legacy acts most folk are only going to repeatedly play an old song if something brings it to their attention. I don't think your average young listener today makes any distinction between when Madonna released her big songs, they just play ones that become popular.

[Prayer 16,594]

Except for "Hung Up", her big big big BIG hits are from the 80s anyway. That's what happens when you have not one, not two, but THREE imperial phases in your career. Obviously some hits are gonna "suffer" while others get the flowers.

But yeah, it's always been surprising how "Ray Of Light" and "Music" singles are not higher cause they were really monster hits at their time.

Waiting for today's "Like A Prayer" update by the way... should be out in a moment.

[Prayer 16,594]

And it's here:

- "Like A Prayer" ("Celebration" Version): 362.485.670 (from 361.578.959 yesterday)

- "Like A Prayer" ("Immaculate" Version): 10.106.667

- "Like A Prayer" (Album Version): 104.703.942

[Debord 723]

4 minutes ago, Prayer said:

Except for "Hung Up", her big big big BIG hits are from the 80s anyway. That's what happens when you have not one, not two, but THREE imperial phases in your career. Obviously some hits are gonna "suffer" while others get the flowers.

I'd actually say her most iconic song for younger listeners today is Vogue. But we really need to understand that most streaming numbers aren't made up of hardcore music fans, they're from casual listeners who are simply not interested in investigating the back catalogue of any artist, regardless of who they are. 

[Prayer 16,594]

Just now, Debord said:

I'd actually say her most iconic song for younger listeners today is Vogue. But we really need to understand that most streaming numbers aren't made up of hardcore music fans, they're from casual listeners who are simply not interested in investigating the back catalogue of any artist, regardless of who they are. 

Based on what? "Vogue" is not even on her Spotify Top 5 (#7 currently, never been in her Top 5 as fas as I know).

Her biggest are always the same: "La Isla", "Material Girl", "Like A Prayer" and "Hung Up". Also her biggest on YouTube.

[Debord 723]

Just now, Prayer said:

Based on what? "Vogue" is not even on her Spotify Top 5 (#7 currently, never been in her Top 5 as fas as I know).

Her biggest are always the same: "La Isla", "Material Girl", "Like A Prayer" and "Hung Up". Also her biggest on YouTube.

Because I'm saying that Spotify streams doesn't = what people who actually care about music think. When I speak about pop music and Madonna with younger pop fans Vogue is the one I hear cited most often, and it's certainly the one that keeps getting think pieces in the media. It's also definitely the one I still hear all the time in LGBTQ bars. But sure, of course that's largely subjective so not something to argue about, but I completely stand by my opinion that the songs of legacy artists that get the biggest streams are almost always the ones that have been brought to attention by films, adverts, TikTok etc, or are referenced by modern artists (obviously doesn't apply in cases where an artist has one or two just massive songs that dwarf the rest of their catalogue). As you say, Madonna having massive success across a long period can almost work against her in streams cos playlists will all pick a bunch of different songs.

[Prayer 16,594]

5 minutes ago, Debord said:

Because I'm saying that Spotify streams doesn't = what people who actually care about music think. When I speak about pop music and Madonna with younger pop fans Vogue is the one I hear cited most often, and it's certainly the one that keeps getting think pieces in the media. It's also definitely the one I still hear all the time in LGBTQ bars. But sure, of course that's largely subjective so not something to argue about, but I completely stand by my opinion that the songs of legacy artists that get the biggest streams are almost always the ones that have been brought to attention by films, adverts, TikTok etc, or are referenced by modern artists (obviously doesn't apply in cases where an artist has one or two just massive songs that dwarf the rest of their catalogue). As you say, Madonna having massive success across a long period can almost work against her in streams cos playlists will all pick a bunch of different songs.

You can stand by your opinion but Spotify is the main streaming platform in the world and YouTube the biggest video platform, so surely the biggest songs there will probably have more real impact and reach than your own personal survey, don't you think?

That said "Vogue" is really one of her essentials, of course, especially between the LGBTQ+ community, it would be absurd to deny that.

[Debord 723]

1 minute ago, Prayer said:

You can stand by your opinion but Spotify is the main streaming platform in the world and YouTube the biggest video platform, so surely the biggest songs there will probably have more real impact and reach than your own personal survey, don't you think?

That said "Vogue" is really one of her essentials, of course, especially between the LGBTQ+ community, it would be absurd to deny that.

But my point was that the charts, now and always, are predominantly made up of people who don't really care about music. '4 Minutes' was one of Madonna's biggest selling songs and is one of her biggest streaming songs but if you get 1000 people and ask them to name 5 iconic Madonna songs, almost no-one is going to say that song, and if you get 1000 huge pop fans, even less of them will. I'm not for a second disputing that the numbers are the numbers - I'm saying that people who actually care about music as opposed to 'listen to whatever is popular/put in front of them at the moment' are the ones who are actually inclined to investigate older artists and listen to songs other than the obvious ones.

[Prayer 16,594]

1 minute ago, Debord said:

But my point was that the charts, now and always, are predominantly made up of people who don't really care about music. '4 Minutes' was one of Madonna's biggest selling songs and is one of her biggest streaming songs but if you get 1000 people and ask them to name 5 iconic Madonna songs, almost no-one is going to say that song, and if you get 1000 huge pop fans, even less of them will. I'm not for a second disputing that the numbers are the numbers - I'm saying that people who actually care about music as opposed to 'listen to whatever is popular/put in front of them at the moment' are the ones who are actually inclined to investigate older artists and listen to songs other than the obvious ones.

I get your point but personally I don't agree with that whole "people who care and don't care about music".

Anyone who spends 3 minutes listening to a song, or bought a digital download back in the day, or buys a ticket for a concert... surely cares enough about the music to give it attention, interest and sometimes money, even if they are general public and not hardcore fans or they do it cause it's fashionable at the time, or whatever the reason. And general public make the hits and the impact, not the fans.

I don't believe in music elites, personally. Music makes the people come together, etc.

[Debord 723]

Just now, Prayer said:

I get your point but personally I don't agree with that whole "people who care and don't care about music".

Anyone who spends 3 minutes listening to a song, or bought a digital download back in the day, or buys a ticket for a concert... surely cares enough about the music to give it attention, interest and sometimes money, even if they are general public and not hardcore fans or they do it cause it's fashionable at the time, or whatever the reason. And general public make the hits and the impact, not the fans.

I don't believe in music elites, personally. Music makes the people come together, etc.

I'm not talking about a 'music elite', I'm talking about someone who cares about music and will always care about music, as opposed to people who just listen to whatever is popular, often has music just as a background thing and doesn't necessarily stick with anything they listen to after it ceases to be popular. I'm not applying some value judgement to that in terms of the latter people being 'lesser' or something, I'm just stating the fact that the folk who go back and listen to older artists are always the ones who actually care about music, regardless of fandom. 

[Anapausis 6,603]

6 minutes ago, Prayer said:

I get your point but personally I don't agree with that whole "people who care and don't care about music".

Anyone who spends 3 minutes listening to a song, or bought a digital download back in the day, or buys a ticket for a concert... surely cares enough about the music to give it attention, interest and sometimes money, even if they are general public and not hardcore fans or they do it cause it's fashionable at the time, or whatever the reason. And general public make the hits and the impact, not the fans.

I don't believe in music elites, personally. Music makes the people come together, etc.

PRAYER ME THE KING OF CAPS COME TO ANNOUNCE I HEARD WHOLE TUTBMP AND CHERISH EPS AND ALMOST FULL I'LL REMEMBER ONE WHILE I DID MY DISHES ***A COUPLE OF HOURS AGO***!!!! NEXT SONG I SWEAR I WILL LEARN LYRICS IS SUPERNATURAL!! NEED TO TAKE MY CHANCE ON THIS KIND OF ROMANCE!!! SUPERNATURAL THING!!!

[Prayer 16,594]

Just now, Debord said:

I'm not talking about a 'music elite', I'm talking about someone who cares about music and will always care about music, as opposed to people who just listen to whatever is popular, often has music just as a background thing and doesn't necessarily stick with anything they listen to after it ceases to be popular. I'm not applying some value judgement to that in terms of the latter people being 'lesser' or something, I'm just stating the fact that the folk who go back and listen to older artists are always the ones who actually care about music, regardless of fandom. 

But both types care about the music, in different ways. Someone who just listens to what's popular or has music in the background, again, cares enough to listen to what's popular or to have music in the background.

Different ways of enjoying the same product.

[Debord 723]

1 minute ago, Prayer said:

But both types care about the music, in different ways. Someone who just listens to what's popular or has music in the background, again, cares enough to listen to what's popular or to have music in the background.

Different ways of enjoying the same product.

I'm not saying casual listeners don't enjoy what they're listening to. Personally, I don't view music as a 'product', it's something that is integral to my life and I always try and seek out new music, and investigate artists I'm unfamiliar with whom I find out were influences on new artists I like etc. I don't think it's controversial to note the difference. We wouldn't blanch at saying that some people are really into art while most people just like to have a nice picture on their wall - it doesn't mean the latter people don't enjoy what they're looking at and don't get any pleasure from it, but they're not 'art lovers' in the same way. You could say it about any art form, really.

[Alpha 1,896]

1 hour ago, Debord said:

I wouldn't say that, Hung Up and 4 Minutes are two of her biggest streaming songs, Confessions is one of her biggest albums. The sad fact is that for legacy acts most folk are only going to repeatedly play an old song if something brings it to their attention. I don't think your average young listener today makes any distinction between when Madonna released her big songs, they just play ones that become popular.

But those are the exception. Think about her past tours...people want mostly 80s. You have people who feel she did nothing great or notable after the Immaculate Collection. 

[Debord 723]

2 minutes ago, Alpha said:

But those are the exception. Think about her past tours...people want mostly 80s. You have people who feel she did nothing great or notable after the Immaculate Collection. 

When I went to Celebration folk went off for Vogue, Hung Up, Don't Tell Me, Ray of Light...I'd say Nothing Really Matters too but that was the opening so I guess could've been anything. Half of her 20 most streamed songs are after the 80s. You'll definitely get folk who didn't pay any attention after The Immaculate Collection - a lot of those will be exactly the folk I've been speaking about, who were into her when she was massive in the 1980s and they were teenagers/in their 20s, and then when she became less popular in the 90s they stopped paying attention and never really came back aside from the odd massive song.

As a related kind-of-aside, whenever folk say an artist hasn't done anything good since xyz, they are almost always saying 'they haven't done anything good since this particular period when they were very popular and I was young'. Unless they're pop stans, who like to hurl that at each other all the time!

[Alpha 1,896]

1 hour ago, Debord said:

When I went to Celebration folk went off for Vogue, Hung Up, Don't Tell Me, Ray of Light...I'd say Nothing Really Matters too but that was the opening so I guess could've been anything. Half of her 20 most streamed songs are after the 80s. You'll definitely get folk who didn't pay any attention after The Immaculate Collection - a lot of those will be exactly the folk I've been speaking about, who were into her when she was massive in the 1980s and they were teenagers/in their 20s, and then when she became less popular in the 90s they stopped paying attention and never really came back aside from the odd massive song.

As a related kind-of-aside, whenever folk say an artist hasn't done anything good since xyz, they are almost always saying 'they haven't done anything good since this particular period when they were very popular and I was young'. Unless they're pop stans, who like to hurl that at each other all the time!

Of course she had hits, but the narrative around her the past decade has not been good and really diminished her accomplishments. It's gonna be very different at a concert. At confessions people cheered during Isaac...lol that ain't happening outside the concert. That's also the reason i think she did Celebration, to remind people. She was never seen as a nostalgia act until the livenation years. 

[Debord 723]

1 minute ago, Alpha said:

Of course she had hits, but the narrative around her the past decade has not been good and really diminished her accomplishments. It's gonna be very different at a concert. At confessions people cheered during Isaac...lol that ain't happening outside the concert. That's also the reason i think she did Celebration, to remind people. She was never seen as a nostalgia act until the livenation years. 

The Live Nation years were also when she was well into her 50s and approaching 60. No-one maintains a massive, current career at that age. And this is a very different point to "people prefer the 80s stuff" anyway. Celebration has certainly done wonders for her profile.

[Alpha 1,896]

Just now, Debord said:

The Live Nation years were also when she was well into her 50s and approaching 60. No-one maintains a massive, current career at that age. And this is a very different point to "people prefer the 80s stuff" anyway. Celebration has certainly done wonders for her profile.

Yes and no. At that point the 90s and early 00s werent THAT far away yet the general public always wanted the 80s stuff. Hopefully Celebration did it's job in reminding people of her actual legacy and that her career didnt end at Vogue/Blond Ambition. The fact that the 20 year anniversary of Confessions is next year along with the 25 year anniversary of Music IMO is the perfect opportunity to cash in and brag about how at that point she eas the only female artist to have a #1 single consecutively in the 80s 90s and 00s. She also desperately needs to get added to playlists of 90s and 00s hits.

[Debord 723]

2 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Yes and no. At that point the 90s and early 00s werent THAT far away yet the general public always wanted the 80s stuff. Hopefully Celebration did it's job in reminding people of her actual legacy and that her career didnt end at Vogue/Blond Ambition. The fact that the 20 year anniversary of Confessions is next year along with the 25 year anniversary of Music IMO is the perfect opportunity to cash in and brag about how at that point she eas the only female artist to have a #1 single consecutively in the 80s 90s and 00s. She also desperately needs to get added to playlists of 90s and 00s hits.

I don't think people always wanted the 80s stuff at that point at all. Her tours have never leaned heavily on the 80s stuff and folk still show up to see her. But the "general public" is a terrible barometer cos they always want what they know, what's easy and what most reminds them of their youth.

[Debord 723]

Oh and I looked at Spotify playlists last time this exact topic came up - she is on very big 90s and 00s playlists there!