me1981

Pretty sure it was Sep 06. So it has come and gone

That's the one thing I never did. I had this odd moment. Then again I wasn't that invested in that album.

She didn't save my life. I saved my life. She was just there for moral support. I have also probably spent enough to buy her house. So I'm good with things as they are

Do you know where this has been stated. I would like to see/read that. Did she give reason?

Here's me thinking they sent HBO just one little VHS screener copy and it seems they gave them access to whatever they wanted. I guess we also got the Apr 15 Tokyo show snippets from HBO as well in their pre-show.

Ahhh that explains it. Thank you. Also explains why we got some leaks from that show

Yeah for sure every show was recorded. I think the assumption was always that the reason the Jersey show leaked was becasue it didn't come from M's camp but from HBO (easier to leak sometimes from a third party) That they had a screener copy and that was why we got the Jersey show. Maybe they had a few different shows. I don't think any leaks have occurred from Nocturn who recorded and archived all her shows from WTG onwards.

So I was watching the HBO promo spots that Club78boy has been uploading. One thing I noticed was the different angles they use, but more surprising was the brief moment in Open Your Heart. In the June 24th show we have, when she is on the stairs and sings "open your heart" she points at Oliver before bringing her hands into her chest. In the HBO promo she doesn't do this. The assumption was always that HBO got the June 24th show as a screener and used it for their commercials, however it seems they had more than one show. Anyone notice this? I always assumed the reason June 24th leaked was because it came from HBO somehow, now I wonder what other shows they might have had and if they will ever leak. Maybe that is why we have a few songs from the Boston show? Below is a quick comparison, top is HBO Promo and bottom is Jersey June 24. There are other bits too which are not from the June 24th show in there too. I wonder what other show they used in the promo?

I see it simply as parody or comical. Hence the last line experience has made me rich and now there after me Cause everybody's living in a material world The last line really turns the finger back to the audience of the day, and it was true and still is. I don't think that this even has to be a female empowerment song. It's allowed to just be what is, not everything she did or does is about women and feminism and female empowerment. I like the contradiction - I think it is more transformative than a true contradiction. It is more playing against the lyrics, but in a way that adds to the narrative. This was a time when people were taking music videos seriously and trying to elevate them to mini films. So the discussions were much like making a film. M or Mary may have found that transferring the narrative directly was too cliche and they wanted to come at from another angle.

Lol. She definitely hasn't been single since Guy, she's been having lots of fun, well it seems so anyway.

I've come to realise that M during the Guy Ritchie years seems the least like herself. I have come to loathe that period. She is like a stepford wife. Conservative and diminished and his 'little woman'. Madonna prior to meeting him around 99 and the woman that is emerging again now seem more like the Madonna I grew up with than the woman she was during that period of time.

I agree this is a real possibility. The lighting is different, the audio recording is some of the best I have ever heard from a live show. In terms of the different shots, well they didn't use the same shots on every show. I'd say 90% the shots on the screens were the same, but here and there I noticed differences in some shows. However after seeing the upscaled footage we got from the Los Angeles date, I'm not sure Dallas seems that amazing to me. LA really looks like it was Pro Shot and the lighting also looks amazing. The audio is standard though. Open Your Heart from LA looks better than New Jersey, Yokohama, Nice or Barcelona. If LA exists in the quality we have seen so far, I would love to have it all.

Has this been studied? I would be interested to see the corroborating evidence for this. I have seen little research into trans people and the effect the current culture wars have had on the community. Especially how people like Dave Chapelle and JK Rowling's comments have led to the death of Trans people.

Ah, okay I get ya. Yeah I can understand that

Really? The Disco section that morphs into the AIDS era is perfection. We go from the hedonism of the 70's which results in the orgy then into the early 80's Regan conservative era (Why's It So Hard) and AIDS hysteria that ends with the sombre In This Life. It is on par with the LAV - PDP church sequence from BAT for me. It really captures what many people say was the tone that transitioned the 70's into the 80's.

1. The controversy - LAV especially, also the church wanting to ban the show in Italy 2. Nothing as grandious and theatrical had really been staged before. The closest was Bowie's previous tour. People were blown away by the staging. The New York Times did a whole article about the staging of the show 3. M was at the peak of her career - LAP was a massive hit, Dick Tracy was super hyped, everyone was obsessed with her 4. Truth or Dare - this doco immortalised the show and brought it to people who had never seen her live before and kept the momentum of the tour going well into 1991 5. Girlie Show is much more subdued and sombre 6. She barely toured the US and didn't do nearly as many shows overall. She also barely toured Europe/UK either 7. She was coming off the failure of Erotica and BOE. I feel like 1993 was a big year for a lot of other artists. Mariah and Janet and Whitney were all scoring big and I feel M got lost in the shuffle 8. I do remember people complaining about the setlist. Not enough older songs. When your tour highlights an album that didn't sell well, people aren't going to remember it as well. BAT scored well because LAP was a massive hit and the singles were too 9. MTV covered this tour to death. They barely touched Girlie Show. I am sure more people saw coverage of BAT by accident and probably had no idea M even toured in 1993

I never said men control everything

I didn't criticise men's magazines at all. I pointed out a fact. Men have controlled women's sexuality in media. That is a fact. It is not a criticism. Madonna did say at the time she wanted to show a woman's point of view. This was pre 1993. Why do you keep saying "that's not what she says in the sex book" You do know that book is fiction. It is disingenous to quote anything from that book and attribute it to Madonna. If you don't realise it is fiction than maybe Madonna is right "You don't get it" Also she has barely whinged about the Erotica/Sex book era. She has barely talked about it. I think it has been brought up a handful of times in 30 years.

First - I never said she said they were misogynist. I said through history men have always controlled the way women have been seen. We had mostly seen a man's view of a woman and a woman's sexuality, she wanted to express her view of a woman's sexuality as a woman. She said this at the time. Pretty simple and straight forward. Second - She was playing a character in the SEX book. So take what Dita says with a grain of salt. That's like saying "Madonna said in Body of Evidence.....Madonna said in Shanghai Surprise........." Madonna said nothing in the SEX book, her character said plenty and was a fantasy character. Last - She complained because she was treated like a bad girl who did bad things and was punished for doing what she did. Calling people out for treating a woman like Madonna like a tramp and a slut for being who she is isn't revisionist wokism. It happened and it wasn't okay then and it isn't okay now

For me the point was always that she was sick of seeing a man's view of a woman's sexuality. Look at Playboy, Penthouse and Hustler. These were all acceptable by 1992 and celebs were even starting to pose for them and had always done interviews with those magazines. These were all created and generally run by men. She was saying that men had dominated a woman's image and sexuality and she was taking it back. The issue is that that seems to be as far as she got in the thought process for the project, and I don't think Meisel or anyone working on the book had the creative understanding to take the project where it needed to go. Was it half baked? - Maybe. I don't think SEX was ever that amazing. The writing was not up to par for her and the photos were fairly bland. Though some are still iconic. The statement she made was far greater than the project itself. The bigger issue was that it was hyped to the heavens. Every tv show and newspaper and magazine announced SEX COMING SOON and also Madonna has an album out the same day apparently. I don't think anything was ever going to live up to the hype that came before it. For me 1992 was the last year of the 80's for M. It was the hype and scandal and pop culture impact and the mega fame. When we hit 1993 and once it was clear Erotica had flopped, Body of Evidence had flopped and everything she touched was failing, we hit the 90's. I agree she was sombre and angry and depressed 93 - 95. I don't think it was just her career. I could write a whole thesis on this period or do a multi part video series on it. It can't be easy to hit heights like she did, and then fall from that and crash hard and have everyone spit on you and kick you and love the fact that you have failed. Mariah, Whitney and Janet were the 'good' girls playing by the rules (though it seems they were all being controlled behind the scenes) and they were getting all the praise. M was being treated like the naughty girl who had to be punished and put in her place. I understand her anger. As for the Girlie Show. I felt it was brilliant. All of it.

I think only she can decide who was a shitty ex and who wasn't. Or the people she wants to forgive and the ones she doesn't. Out of curiosity has Sandra B been mentioned?

It's a late Christmas miracle!!!!!!!! @Jackie Awesome news, thank you so much for taking this on, it means so much @Fighter Thanks so much for all your hard work. I really hope your health problems heal as well.

You never know. She may well pull a big tour out of the bag at some point. Start saving now and if she doesn't come to your area save the cash to go to her. If we do get a greatest hits tour, it would be worth it to save up and go.

She said a few women, not many. I am now wondering if she did sleep with Ingrid, I mean Sandra and Madonna didn't bust up for nothing and Ingrid always hung off her like a lovesick puppy

She seems pretty happy with Blond(e) Ambition. Which surprises me. I was also surprised she admitted to sleeping with women since she denied it in the past.