Should she be called out for Esther?

[Debord 403]

1 minute ago, Redha DBL said:

It's not just showing your 11yo kid men with naked ass, it's also those men mimming sexual intercourse. In that case those elements are very important, sadly. I can't believe you have to explain that to some people. I knew we were sometimes blind fans when it comes to our fav pop star but when it comes to children and sick attitude there's no fandom for me. 

It's got nothing to do with 'fandom' cos the arguments you're wheeling out are the EXACT SAME ONES used by bigots to attack drag queens and Pride parades. Do you actually know any 11 year olds? They're a lot savvier than you think. They don't need to be protected from the human body or the notion that sex exists, indeed they are already understanding these things. What matters is that they understand consent, self-respect and the difference between expression and oppression, and between artifice and reality. If you want to worry about children perhaps spend your time supporting orgs which support children who are being abused by their families or family friends, by their trusted adults, by their religious leaders, rather than wringing your hands over an enormously privileged girl who's having the time of her life on stage with her mum.

[Honey Little 3,996]

Artists are here to disturb the so-called fans (in addition to the peace).

[Roland Barthes 5,850]

Only people with a sexual deviance, seeing sex everywhere and thinking about sex all the time would see something sexual in this since they are obsessed with sex.

I look at who's joining the moral majority here and bingo ! 

I rest my case.

 

[Redha DBL 7,348]

Some comments i read are really worrying... It's incredible what fandom and worshipping can do to people's brain, like if they would see something done by any random humain they would find it really sick but when it's done by their idol it's Beautiful and ok. No wonders there are sects and gurus who can make people do anything, even kill themselves...

I don't know what is worse, what Madonna does with her daughter or the reactions of somes fans... Thank god i'm a fan but i haven't lost my mental sanity.

[Redha DBL 7,348]

6 minutes ago, Honey Little said:

Artists are here to disturb the so-called fans (in addition to the peace).

Yeah, i suggest next she shows a sextape of her having sex with her boyfriend to her 11yo child, hey, it's art ! It's Madonna ! Artist are here to disturb the peace !!!

Simply disgusting ...

[Honey Little 3,996]

1 minute ago, Redha DBL said:

Yeah, i suggest next she shows a sextape of her having sex with her boyfriend to her 11yo child, hey, it's art ! It's Madonna ! Artist are here to disturb the peace !!!

Simply disgusting ...

Boo hoo hoo, you must like Taylor Swift or that kind of brainless SAFE pop garbage.

[Redha DBL 7,348]

Just now, Honey Little said:

Boo hoo hoo, you must like Taylor Swift or that kind of brainless SAFE pop garbage.

Yeah because you know there is nothing IN BETWEEN. Or people show nudity and sexual intercourses to their 11yo children on stage or they are brainless puppets... There are absolutely no well balance human beings in between.... Seriously you'd better come with better arguments to try to justify this kind of sick behaviour. 

[Justice 326]

12 minutes ago, Roland Barthes said:

So you needed to check Madonna's daughter name...that's interesting for a supposed fan....

 

Such a lame replay.

I am fan of Madonna, not Estere.  

[Honey Little 3,996]

1 minute ago, Redha DBL said:

Yeah because you know there is nothing IN BETWEEN. Or people show nudity and sexual intercourses to their 11yo children on stage or they are brainless puppets... There are absolutely no well balance human beings in between.... Seriously you'd better come with better arguments to try to justify this kind of sick behaviour. 

There is no better argument than the haters of Madonna’s more controversial acts, most likely like SAFE pop garbage such as Taylor Swift, Beyonce etc.

[Debord 403]

8 minutes ago, Redha DBL said:

Yeah, i suggest next she shows a sextape of her having sex with her boyfriend to her 11yo child, hey, it's art ! It's Madonna ! Artist are here to disturb the peace !!!

Simply disgusting ...

Yes, that would be exactly the same as some dancers dancing during a show. Christ, you're doing that thing of committing to your bit and working backwards from there, leaving all logic and reason behind. I'm sure this time, the 'Madonna is corrupting the kids!' discourse will prove worthwhile!

[Mden 2,252]

It’s not specifically a Madonna issue. It’s the culture. Breaking boundaries and fighting the establishment is all well and good till one day you find no structures are left and you’re exposed to anything. Children are the most vulnerable in such a society. They’re offered no protection. 

[Redha DBL 7,348]

I'm leaving the thread, at least for the moment. I feel sick to my stomach really... I don't even need to read any answers cause NOTHING can excuse or explain it... Sick, sick, sick. I'm really reconsidering my admiration for this woman, for the first time in 33 years. If Madonna thinks it's ok to that i can't even imagine what else she finds ok. This is not a controversy, this is not art, this is not freedom of speech, this is sickness. 

[Askeroff 8,109]

do people really concerned about every child on this planet or only about children of celebrities and millionaires

 

[Debord 403]

1 minute ago, Redha DBL said:

I'm leaving the thread, at least for the moment. I feel sick to my stomach really... I don't even need to read any answers cause NOTHING can excuse or explain it... Sick, sick, sick. I'm really reconsidering my admiration for this woman, for the first time in 33 years. If Madonna thinks it's ok to that i can't even imagine what else she finds ok. This is not a controversy, this is not art, this is not freedom of speech, this is sickness. 

You should listen to Whitney, who got decades ago what some of M's own fans are apparently struggling with in 2023. 

 

 

In the meantime I'm sure there are some Drag Queen story times you can go complain about.

[Debord 403]

5 minutes ago, Mden said:

It’s not specifically a Madonna issue. It’s the culture. Breaking boundaries and fighting the establishment is all well and good till one day you find no structures are left and you’re exposed to anything. Children are the most vulnerable in such a society. They’re offered no protection. 

This could be taken from a Q-Anon forum.

[Redha DBL 7,348]

1 minute ago, Askeroff said:

do people really concerned about every child on this planet or only about children of celebrities and millionaires

 

There's no fucking matter about money, country or celebrity or anything, a child is a child and when you see something like that which is clearly sick you can close your eyes or speak up. Period. I don't care if it's Madonna or my neighbor, i would react just the same. 

[RUADJAI 14,965]

7 minutes ago, Debord said:

It's got nothing to do with 'fandom' cos the arguments you're wheeling out are the EXACT SAME ONES used by bigots to attack drag queens and Pride parades. Do you actually know any 11 year olds? They're a lot savvier than you think. They don't need to be protected from the human body or the notion that sex exists, indeed they are already understanding these things. What matters is that they understand consent, self-respect and the difference between expression and oppression, and between artifice and reality. If you want to worry about children perhaps spend your time supporting orgs which support children who are being abused by their families or family friends, by their trusted adults, by their religious leaders, rather than wringing your hands over an enormously privileged girl who's having the time of her life on stage with her mum.

Very well said. I don’t have the energy to partake in this but here are a few bullet points for everyone to consider:

 The twins have most likely already had the sex talk and are menstruating.

 Sex is not bad

 the naked body is not only for sex

Madonna knows exactly what she is doing

Sex is everywhere in everything already; WAP WAP WAP

Violence is also pervasive in our culture and no one seems to be creating a thread for all the children experiencing war right now. Maybe your fear for the children isn’t genuine and has been force fed to you. 

I was 11 when Erotica came out and started listening to it on repeat. I was 10 when Justify My Love came out and also started watching the Blond Ambition Tour everyday after school. The tour where she masterbates on a bed with “hermaphrodites” and simulated sex with a male dancer within 2 minutes of her setting foot on stage. 
 

i was 12 or 13 watching the orgy scene in the Girlie Show. Her getting it up the ass during Fever. And army dudes grinding during the Beast Within. 

[Debord 403]

2 minutes ago, Redha DBL said:

There's no fucking matter about money, country or celebrity or anything, a child is a child and when you see something like that which is clearly sick you can close your eyes or speak up. Period. I don't care if it's Madonna or my neighbor, i would react just the same. 

Cool! Can you point us towards your "speaking up" about kids living in poverty? About kids in Gaza right now being massacred? About kids struggling to get the basics to survive solely due to where they happen to be born and our system of world capitalism? About kids being subjected to endless war, misogyny, homophobia and transphobia, racism and more from our media *just from our politicians*? You're very vocal about these, right?

[Mden 2,252]

There is no such thing as transphobia. 

[Debord 403]

3 minutes ago, RUADJAI said:

i was 12 or 13 watching the orgy scene in the Girlie Show. Her getting it up the ass during Fever. And army dudes grinding during the Beast Within. 

Same! I was 13 when my mum bought me The Girlie Show VHS and I hammered it. Rather than being corrupted or disturbed by the things it depicts, I found it hugely empowering and inspiring cos I already knew I was different and I knew from what I was watching that I wasn't alone, what I was feeling wasn't wrong (which is what kids even now are actually bombarded with) and that I would be ok.

[Redha DBL 7,348]

2 minutes ago, RUADJAI said:

Very well said. I don’t have the energy to partake in this but here are a few bullet points for everyone to consider:

 The twins have most likely already had the sex talk and are menstruating.

 Sex is not bad

 the naked body is not only for sex

Madonna knows exactly what she is doing

Sex is everywhere in everything already; WAP WAP WAP

Violence is also pervasive in our culture and no one seems to be creating a thread for all the children experiencing war right now. Maybe your fear for the children isn’t genuine and has been force fed to you. 

I was 11 when Erotica came out and started listening to it on repeat. I was 10 when Justify My Love came out and also started watching the Blond Ambition Tour everyday after school. The tour where she masterbates on a bed with “hermaphrodites” and simulated sex with a male dancer within 2 minutes of her setting foot on stage. 
 

i was 12 or 13 watching the orgy scene in the Girlie Show. Her getting it up the ass during Fever. And army dudes grinding during the Beast Within. 

This is absolutely not the same !! Every kids watch sexual stuff secretly when they reach around 10yo, may it be porn magazines or vhs in the 80's/90's or on internet nowadays, it's natural. But it's a totally different thing when YOUR OWN MOTHER puts you on a stage and make naked ass guys with jokstraps mimming sexual intercouse on her in front of you when you're 11yo. Imagine if the same scene happens in private in Madonna's living room... You still don't see the problem ???!

[Debord 403]

Just now, Mden said:

There is no such thing as transphobia. 

Oh fuck off.

[Debord 403]

Just now, Redha DBL said:

This is absolutely not the same !! Every kids watch sexual stuff secretly when they reach around 10yo, may it be porn magazines or vhs in the 80's/90's or on internet nowadays, it's natural. But it's a totally different thing when YOUR OWN MOTHER puts you on a stage and make naked ass guys with jokstraps mimming sexual intercouse on her in front of you when you're 11yo. Imagine if the same scene happens in private in Madonna's living room... You still don't see the problem ???!

Your absolute determination to totally misrepresent what actually happens is almost impressive.

[Redha DBL 7,348]

3 minutes ago, Debord said:

Cool! Can you point us towards your "speaking up" about kids living in poverty? About kids in Gaza right now being massacred? About kids struggling to get the basics to survive solely due to where they happen to be born and our system of world capitalism? About kids being subjected to endless war, misogyny, homophobia and transphobia, racism and more from our media *just from our politicians*? You're very vocal about these, right?

If your only arguments are what i may or not comment about in this world then you should really ask yourself if what you're trying to defend is defendable...

[Debord 403]

Just now, Redha DBL said:

If your only arguments are what i may or not comment about in this world then you should really ask yourself if what you're trying to defend is defendable...

You wrote that it was a case of speaking up or not "period". So I'm asking you to show me this strident and uncompromising commitment to the welfare of children. It's not a difficult request.