Why Madonna Still Matters...... 👏👏

[xavier 4,787]

Why Madonna still matters

She’s more than a musician

4 July 2023, 

In my day job, I work with children. Well, OK, they’re in their twenties, but when they ask me who my favourite musician of all time is, and I say Madonna, they usually look blank. That funny-looking woman who had a few hits in the 1980s? Meh, what about Taylor Swift?

Madonna may not have topped the charts for a few years, but for me and many other women of my generation, she is the greatest. And she always will be, in a way that the pop stars of today – derivative, airbrushed, on-message and PRed to the max – can only dream of. She changed the world of music, she changed lives and even now, in my forties, I still look to her as an inspiration – which is why I was so concerned last week when the news broke that she had spent several days in intensive care with a bacterial infection. 

Madonna is living proof that you don’t have to be ‘nice’ – people-pleasing, appeasing, uncontroversial – to do good

At 64, Madonna is the bestselling female recording artist of all time; she has sold 300 million records in her 40-plus year career. She continues to release albums every three or four years. Before her hospital admission she had been preparing to begin a seven-month, 45-city world tour. Contemporary radio stations that ignore her in favour of younger artists are missing a trick, as she is still making both first-class dance-pop bangers and addictively beautiful slow-tempo tracks. To pick out just two from her recent albums: ‘Turn Up The Radio’ is a fantastic dance track that has lifted me out of a low mood more than once; ‘Ghost Town’ is a haunting evocation of the beauty of having a soulmate which I first heard with my equally music-obsessed ex and which, five years after we broke up, still revives a sadness.

So what, you might say, she’s just a singer who’s made some good tunes and become very rich as a result. But there is so much more to Madonna than that. She moved to New York at 19, alone, and the five years she spent there before becoming famous were a time of grinding poverty and knockback after knockback as she struggled to make it big. She lived in cockroach-filled apartments in dangerous neighbourhoods, worked a series of low-paying jobs, was sexually assaulted at knifepoint and at times was homeless. When her father came to visit her he was so appalled by the squalor she lived in that he begged her to come home. But she refused; she wouldn’t give up. She clung to her dreams and ambitions with a tenacity that, given some of the conditions she endured, seems almost superhuman. How many of us can say that we would do the same? I certainly would have fled home at the first sign of all those six-legged housemates. But when you see someone you admire show that level of determination, and eventually succeed, it helps you to find a strength of your own. I can remember how upset I was when a man I was involved with told me to give up on my journalistic dreams: ‘The industry’s dead,’ he told me. ‘Retrain as a translator.’ Madonna didn’t retrain, and I wasn’t going to either; and he was out of the picture by the time I finally got published in the national press.

Yet that very strength of character has meant that Madonna has often been criticised for not conforming to traditional expectations of what a woman should be like. She has always been outspoken – taking on everyone from the Catholic Church to George W. Bush – sexually confident and even aggressive, and the latter especially means she has developed a reputation of not always being the nicest person. But in a world where women are still told to ‘be kind’ at their own expense, even, or perhaps especially, when their rights conflict with the desires of men, I think we need to see more women who don’t prioritise being ‘nice’, who aren’t afraid to state their opinions honestly, make trouble and stand their ground.

People don’t tend to mind opinionated women who have the ‘right’ views – Dua Lipa knows she’ll win points for criticising the government’s stance on refugees. Madonna has never had the right views. She was a vocal supporter of gay rights in the 1980s when homophobia was much more rife than it is now and Section 28 was still in force. She spoke out against the stigma surrounding HIV and Aids at a time when sufferers sometimes died alone because their families did not know they were gay. Yet there she was, on the Jonathan Ross Show, telling the world that being HIV positive was nothing to be ashamed of. A leaflet on safe sex was provided with every copy of the Like A Prayer album when it came out, and it included the line: ‘People with Aids, regardless of their sexual orientation, deserve compassion and support, not violence and bigotry.’ That may seem uncontroversial now, but I can remember the 1980s and it wasn’t then. It’s easy to forget the intensity of the fear, suspicion and prejudice that existed then and how against-the-grain her stance was. It could have ruined her career.

But it didn’t. Seeing a woman who is outspoken, argumentative, and with a lot of the ‘wrong’ opinions, helped give me the confidence to be honest about who I am (a left-leaning Leave voter, so everybody disagrees with me). Madonna has continued to take flak throughout her life over everything from her much younger boyfriends to the quality of her singing, and she doesn’t cave in – she just carries on doing what she wants to do. Every time I’m made to feel I need to shut my mouth and switch off my brain, I think of Madonna, who has never shut hers and never will.

Madonna is living proof that you don’t have to be ‘nice’ – people-pleasing, appeasing, uncontroversial – to do good. She has donated millions to numerous medical and children’s charities, including Aids and breast cancer charities, and paid the huge medical bills of friends diagnosed with Aids, most notably her former flatmate Martin Burgoyne, whose bedside she was at when he died. She has founded two charities – the Ray of Light Foundation, which supports education for girls in poorer countries, and Raising Malawi – and has raised four adopted children as well as two biological children, for much of the time as a single parent.

Madonna isn’t all good, or all bad. And this is why her fans love her. She’s a megastar, but we see ourselves in her. Like all women, she makes bad fashion choices, has insecurities about her appearance (hence overdoing it just a bit on the fillers recently), dates unsuitable men and has struggled to find the perfect partner. Like all mums, she’s had difficulties with her teenage children. Like all career women, she’s had failures and flops, made bad choices and wrong moves. Like all unmarried women over the age of 30, she’s written an embarrassing book about her sex life – OK, maybe that’s just her.

But again and again, Madonna bounces back from very public criticism, ridicule and failure, puts it behind her and moves onto something different in a way that ought to inspire each of us who’s messed up in a smaller, less public way. She never lets it get the better of her. And if she can overcome her mistakes and go on to new successes, then so can I.

Get well soon, Madonna. You’re needed now as a role model as much as you ever were – maybe even more.

 

Amen. 👏👏

[MDRA 4,223]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-madonna-still-matters/

[Donna 16,454]

I think what annoys me is that a lot of the younger generation that I know, seem to be very aware of who Michael Jackson and even Elvis is and few other big named musicians who aren't alive or not producing music anymore, yet have no idea who Madonna is, even though she still makes headlines often.  I mean; those youngsters who are slightly aware of Michael Jackson, have no clue who Madonna is.  It's like they never heard of her.  It's hard to even fathom that, knowing what I know and how influential she has been and somewhat still is.  I think it's particularly worse in the United States since Hip Hop, R&B and Country music have become the most popular genres of music in the US these days.  And if the younger generation is aware of whom she is, she's considered "old and gross". 

[PHIL 260]

33 minutes ago, tscott said:

I think what annoys me is that a lot of the younger generation that I know, seem to be very aware of who Michael Jackson and even Elvis is and few other big named musicians who aren't alive or not producing music anymore, yet have no idea who Madonna is, even though she still makes headlines often.  I mean; those youngsters who are slightly aware of Michael Jackson, have no clue who Madonna is.  It's like they never heard of her.  It's hard to even fathom that, knowing what I know and how influential she has been and somewhat still is.  I think it's particularly worse in the United States since Hip Hop, R&B and Country music have become the most popular genres of music in the US these days.  And if the younger generation is aware of whom she is, she's considered "old and gross". 

that's a complicated question and i agree, it sometimes is astonishing how little she is perceived by the younger generation. everyone knows of her, that’s for sure, but they don’t know WHAT she has done exactly that makes her  that famous.

to me there are two main factors. first and foremost, her ART. she took several generations on a ride over 4 decades, her ride as an artist, musician, performer and her personal beliefs and attitude. everyone knew of the madonna at every specific time, the new one, the re-invention. the scandal, the enlightenment, the change, the new madonna right now.

this has changed kind of after 'hard candy'. both rebel heart and madame x are sort of retrospective in different ways. this aligned with a shift in the industry and audience. as an artist she continued to express herself and made her art MORE COMPLEX. the general public isn’t following the same way anymore. plus, she exhibits her complexity and contradictions - and i love her for that.

means, she is not ONE THING. or at least, she hasn’t been branded this way. (of course, also elvis, mj, ... are complex too) - but the 'brand' has been established to make it way more easy to connect to them. madonna, the artist, didn’t wanna do that, especially the last 10 years, she's (rightfully) too proud to continue only as a brand. she wants to create. stay current.

BUT, she got it as well and agreed to do her first ever greatest hits tour. working on a biopic. it felt like, she wants to remind the world herself what she did, what she stands for and why we actually all love her.

AND, there hasn’t been any sort of documentary to remind a new generation of her achievements. since MTY didn’t do them anymore, nothing big happened. no netflix, nothing. that plays a big part in my opinion too

[wtg1987 10,169]

when people complain about the "young " generation not knowing Madonna i just think " well thats their loss then"

most modern music today just sucks - i was in the gym today and it all sounds so terrible - there was one particular rap song that was so bad it made my ears bleed - all i could hear lyric wise was "thats not me ! thats not me " - is this really the kind of music this generation likes - im so happy i grew up in a world of MJ, Prince , M , Roxette, Belinda Carlisle, Janet, Duran etc -

at the end of the day young generation will only gravitate to young artists and thats just a fact whether people accept it or not and im happy with that ... 

[Would You Like To Try 8,346]

22 minutes ago, wtg1987 said:

when people complain about the "young " generation not knowing Madonna i just think " well thats their loss then"

most modern music today just sucks - i was in the gym today and it all sounds so terrible - there was one particular rap song that was so bad it made my ears bleed - all i could hear lyric wise was "thats not me ! thats not me " - is this really the kind of music this generation likes - im so happy i grew up in a world of MJ, Prince , M , Roxette, Belinda Carlisle, Janet, Duran etc -

at the end of the day young generation will only gravitate to young artists and thats just a fact whether people accept it or not and im happy with that ... 

I mean I'm like very young and still like her

[MikeyK 687]

10 hours ago, tscott said:

I think what annoys me is that a lot of the younger generation that I know, seem to be very aware of who Michael Jackson and even Elvis is and few other big named musicians who aren't alive or not producing music anymore, yet have no idea who Madonna is, even though she still makes headlines often.  I mean; those youngsters who are slightly aware of Michael Jackson, have no clue who Madonna is.  It's like they never heard of her.  It's hard to even fathom that, knowing what I know and how influential she has been and somewhat still is.  I think it's particularly worse in the United States since Hip Hop, R&B and Country music have become the most popular genres of music in the US these days.  And if the younger generation is aware of whom she is, she's considered "old and gross". 

Really? Wow. How young are we talking? I was under the impression that even most 20-somethings know who she is and at least a couple of her songs, even if a lot don’t think highly of her. And I know it’s only a small microcosm and not representative of the general population but when I go down the rabbit hole of stan twitter to sort of lurk and observe, teenagers there def know who she is and have at least some perception of her music (again, even if it’s not with the greatest opinion).

[Donna 16,454]

On 7/4/2023 at 11:17 PM, MikeyK said:

Really? Wow. How young are we talking? I was under the impression that even most 20-somethings know who she is and at least a couple of her songs, even if a lot don’t think highly of her. And I know it’s only a small microcosm and not representative of the general population but when I go down the rabbit hole of stan twitter to sort of lurk and observe, teenagers there def know who she is and have at least some perception of her music (again, even if it’s not with the greatest opinion).

A lot of teens have no idea who she is.  But there are those who may have heard of her, but still have never heard a song from her or watched a video of hers. I've seen people well in their 40's who haven't heard a song or even watched a music video of hers. We have to remember for more than 10 or more years, the way younger people consume music is much different than how us older fans consumed music.  Newer generations have an abundance of options in how they consume music. They aren't limited like us older fans who were force fed music on radio and MTV.  That's all we had back then.  These days, kids can go directly to an artist page or playlist to hear their music.  They also are influenced in the music people use often in social media, and right now, Madonna is rarely used among viral moments. The age fan base, Madonna originally started off with which were teens is almost non-existent.  Unfortunately, that is still considered a hugest base in those who consume music.  Luckily, that is starting to change, but it's all about people going directly to their favorite artists and streaming them.  Madonna just doesn't appeal to that young base and unfortunately a lot of that is based on how ageist our society is among aging pop stars. 

 

[Arckangel 265]

Radio stations refusing to play Madonna’s more recent work, MTV no longer nominating her, have a lot to do with it. There should actually be laws against such blatant ageism. The fact some believe Mo only had a few or several hits in the 1980s showcases an even bigger problem. Technically speaking, any entry on the Billboard Hot 100 Singles Chart is a hit, and Madonna’s had a string of top 20 hits at the time.

I regularly hear certain old Madonna songs on the radio or store playlists, and there are quite some other old songs I never hear on those: ‘Angel’, ‘Causing a Commotion’, ‘Who’s That Girl’, ‘Rescue Me’, ‘This Used to Be My Playground’, ‘Hanky Panky’, ‘Justify My Love’, ‘Erotica’, ‘Human Nature’, ‘Bedtime Story’, ‘You’ll See’, ‘Everybody’, ‘Burning Up’, etc.

Those I heard on those in recent years and months are: ‘Borderline’, ‘True Blue’, ‘Holiday’, ’La Isla Bonita’, ‘Music’, ‘Hollywood’, ‘Into the Groove’ and ‘Keep It Together’. Not enough gems (old, newer, even newer and new) from her catalogue are played. That’s what gives some people the impression she only had a few or several hits…

A few days ago, in a clothing store, I heard ‘Popular’ on The Beat 92.5, a Montreal radio station. Finally! A new Madonna song on the radio. It had to be w/ The Weeknd or it would most likely have been ignored no matter how good. Not fair!

[MikeyK 687]

2 hours ago, tscott said:

A lot of teens have no idea who she is.  But there are those who may have heard of her, but still have never heard a song from her or watched a video of hers. I've seen people well in their 40's who haven't heard a song or even watched a music video of hers. We have to remember for more than 10 or more years, the way younger people consume music is much different than how us older fans consumed music.  Newer generations have an abundance of options in how they consume music. They aren't limited like us older fans who were force fed music on radio and MTV.  That's all we had back then.  These days, kids can go directly to an artist page or playlist to hear their music.  They also are influenced in the music people use often in social media, and right now, Madonna is rarely used among viral moments. The age fan base, Madonna originally started off with which were teens is almost non-existent.  Unfortunately, that is still considered a hugest base in those who consume music.  Luckily, that is starting to change, but it's all about people going directly to their favorite artists and streaming them.  Madonna just doesn't appeal to that young base and unfortunately a lot of that is based on how ageist our society is among aging pop stars. 

 

I’ll agree on teens for sure. To some extent it’s the circle of life. There are things I didn’t know about as a teen that surprised older people. Some of it I learned about and appreciated as I got older. That said if I encountered people in their 40s that knew nothing of her I’d give them serious side eye haha. Unless they’re from a culture far removed from the western world or a culty thing that shunned modern technology. I’m in my mid 40s and EVERYONE knew her and at least some of her music growing up, even if they didn’t like her. My husband’s in his late 30s and from India. He first came to the US 15 years ago. Even he knew Material Girl growing up. 

That said this is tangentially related to what I’ve said in the spotify thread. We live in an era where legacy artists are having their entire catalogs reduced to like one well known representative song. For MJ it’s Thriller. For Mariah it’s the xmas song. For Whitney it’s IWDWS. For Madonna it’ll likely be Material Girl (much to her chagrin), but exposure is crucial. Get her on as many damn playlists they can. The tiktok viral moments are great!

This is also a time when pop culture is more fragmented than it ever was. The idea of people being so famous nearly everyone in the world knows them is sorta gone. People are hugely famous and beloved by millions but also completely unknown to millions. Music artists. Youtubers and other internet stars. I see stories about “famous youtubers” apparently known for years by millions that I and nobody I know have ever heard of. This Colleen woman that according to twitter is embroiled in scandal. Never heard of her before.

[Donna 16,454]

14 minutes ago, MikeyK said:

I’ll agree on teens for sure. To some extent it’s the circle of life. There are things I didn’t know about as a teen that surprised older people. Some of it I learned about and appreciated as I got older. That said if I encountered people in their 40s that knew nothing of her I’d give them serious side eye haha. Unless they’re from a culture far removed from the western world or a culty thing that shunned modern technology. I’m in my mid 40s and EVERYONE knew her and at least some of her music growing up, even if they didn’t like her.

I know it seems hard to believe people in their 40's or even older that know nothing of her.  But it's true.  While it's most likely they've heard her name and are aware of her being a musician, there are many who have never heard her music or at least realized it was her when hearing a song in passing.  There are many people who aren't even interested in pop music, so they never really paid much attention to her music.  Us being fans, I know it's hard to believe because I feel songs like Like a Prayer, Vogue and Material Girl are three songs that seems to be impossible for one not to have heard.  But oddly, there are people even in western culture that never heard a Madonna song in their life or at least think they haven't.  I say the latter because it's possible for some people to have heard her music in passing or at some event but didn't realize or care to know who was singing. 

[Arckangel 265]

2 hours ago, MikeyK said:

I’ll agree on teens for sure. To some extent it’s the circle of life. There are things I didn’t know about as a teen that surprised older people. Some of it I learned about and appreciated as I got older. That said if I encountered people in their 40s that knew nothing of her I’d give them serious side eye haha. Unless they’re from a culture far removed from the western world or a culty thing that shunned modern technology. I’m in my mid 40s and EVERYONE knew her and at least some of her music growing up, even if they didn’t like her. My husband’s in his late 30s and from India. He first came to the US 15 years ago. Even he knew Material Girl growing up. 

That said this is tangentially related to what I’ve said in the spotify thread. We live in an era where legacy artists are having their entire catalogs reduced to like one well known representative song. For MJ it’s Thriller. For Mariah it’s the xmas song. For Whitney it’s IWDWS. For Madonna it’ll likely be Material Girl (much to her chagrin), but exposure is crucial. Get her on as many damn playlists they can. The tiktok viral moments are great!

This is also a time when pop culture is more fragmented than it ever was. The idea of people being so famous nearly everyone in the world knows them is sorta gone. People are hugely famous and beloved by millions but also completely unknown to millions. Music artists. Youtubers and other internet stars. I see stories about “famous youtubers” apparently known for years by millions that I and nobody I know have ever heard of. This Colleen woman that according to twitter is embroiled in scandal. Never heard of her before.

I do not see Madonna as a legacy artist. As the journalist cited above explained, Madonna’s never actually stopped making music. In between studio albums, she releases live albums, compilations, remix albums, soundtracks or one-off singles (incl. all the latest songs w/ Tokischa, Saucy Santana, The Weeknd and Playboi Carti, Fireboy DML, and so forth). And she’s always kept performing live, whether in concert tours or other occasions. For the same reasons, I cannot see the Backstreet Boys as legacy acts neither when they’ve always been so active.

I see the Spice Girls (as a group) as legacy acts since they essentially broke up in early 2001. Ever since, there have been some reunions and a few new songs, but no new studio albums. Heck, Victoria Beckham even refused to join their last reunion tour in 2019 even though she was still officially part of the band or brand… The girls have been reissuing some stuff, and they reminisce about the old times on Instagram. That’s what a legacy act looks to me—sole focus on the past and very few brand-new creations if ever.

[MikeyK 687]

22 minutes ago, Arckangel said:

I do not see Madonna as a legacy artist. As the journalist cited above explained, Madonna’s never actually stopped making music. In between studio albums, she releases live albums, compilations, remix albums, soundtracks or one-off singles (incl. all the latest songs w/ Tokischa, Saucy Santana, The Weeknd and Playboi Carti, Fireboy DML, and so forth). And she’s always kept performing live, whether in concert tours or other occasions. For the same reasons, I cannot see the Backstreet Boys as legacy acts neither when they’ve always been so active.

I see the Spice Girls (as a group) as legacy acts since they essentially broke up in early 2001. Ever since, there have been some reunions and a few new songs, but no new studio albums. Heck, Victoria Beckham even refused to join their last reunion tour in 2019 even though she was still officially part of the band or brand… The girls have been reissuing some stuff, and they reminisce about the old times on Instagram. That’s what a legacy act looks to me—sole focus on the past and very few brand-new creations if ever.

Sorry, to clarify, when I say legacy I mean like she has an extensive discography and legacy of creative output. Many revered artists with extensive repertoires are seeing their entire legacies sort of get whittled down to like a song or two, for better or worse. As annoying as that might seem, if the alternative is not being known at all it might not be so bad.