MADONNA AND WARNER MUSIC GROUP ANNOUNCE MILESTONE, CAREER-SPANNING PARTNERSHIP!!

[maddy1111 1,784]

20 minutes ago, steady75 said:

Let’s be real. Warner did not resign with her to do some cute little record store day Ltd picture discs and a few curated dedications to DJ’s and some pillow cases and Anniversary singles with new artwork, they signed with her again to finally be able to repackage her landmark money spinning albums. That’s where the money is and Warner is about the money. Aint no big money in a 40th birthday Everybody 12”with a new pic and a long lost Erotica single picture disc. 
People are so hard to defend her and this deal they lose logic and reason. It’s giving dumb. 
All the published articles and news updates from outlets led with the meat of this whole re-deal … and that is the expanded curated landmark albums. Bolstered by archived material that essentially makes them good money for old rope. End of conversation. The rest is just chicken feed so if people could please stop trying to smoke and mirrors this shit it would be appreciated. This forum is trying me recently lord a mercy.  
 

I believe it is not completely truthful view of the situation, honestly. Actually I have a different view on that deal now after 3 years have passed. The main (and painfully overlooked) reason here is that Warner re-signed with her to keep their rights for most of her albums and songs since they were about to expire. They needed to offer her a deal otherwise she would go elsewhere with her whole catalogue (and the most money for them lies in her old catalogue being played all over the world) 

I strongly believe everything else planned are just peanuts they are trying to do to keep her happy. Therefore there is no rush regarding reissues from Warner point of view. They sealed a deal, they will continue making millions with her catalogue, story closed for Warner (the rest is probably just a headache for Warner executives, tbh) 

[GregVsMatt 3,826]

35 minutes ago, maddy1111 said:

I believe it is not completely truthful view of the situation, honestly. Actually I have a different view on that deal now after 3 years have passed. The main (and painfully overlooked) reason here is that Warner re-signed with her to keep their rights for most of her albums and songs since they were about to expire. They needed to offer her a deal otherwise she would go elsewhere with her whole catalogue (and the most money for them lies in her old catalogue being played all over the world) 

I strongly believe everything else planned are just peanuts they are trying to do to keep her happy. Therefore there is no rush regarding reissues from Warner point of view. They sealed a deal, they will continue making millions with her catalogue, story closed for Warner (the rest is probably just a headache for Warner executives, tbh) 

The thing most people don't seem to understand is everything we have so far is from M - she is the decision maker and it's mostly designed in house by her team too. Rhino / Warner create what her team sends them and cannot release it until she decides. They work for her. Every digital release is also requested by (Gambler for example) or approved by M. Rhino cannot release anything without her approval. 

[Adonna 18,104]

40 minutes ago, maddy1111 said:

I believe it is not completely truthful view of the situation, honestly. Actually I have a different view on that deal now after 3 years have passed. The main (and painfully overlooked) reason here is that Warner re-signed with her to keep their rights for most of her albums and songs since they were about to expire. They needed to offer her a deal otherwise she would go elsewhere with her whole catalogue (and the most money for them lies in her old catalogue being played all over the world) 

I strongly believe everything else planned are just peanuts they are trying to do to keep her happy. Therefore there is no rush regarding reissues from Warner point of view. They sealed a deal, they will continue making millions with her catalogue, story closed for Warner (the rest is probably just a headache for Warner executives, tbh) 

Exactly, the deal is much bigger than just re-issues and digital/stream adds. (Though, I feel the digital/streaming adds do play a big part in the thedeal).  It's allowing Warners the rights to all her catalog including Interscope records by the year 2024.  They also will curate projects (and have done so.... HELLO to FEL) for years to come.  It ain't just about a few things people didn't like or what we haven't seen come to life.  It's an all encompassing and on-going deal that give Warner exclusive rights to her whole catalog.  It's because of this deal, they can curate her catalog and re-release her music in various formats and editions for years to come.  And FEL was a big deal.  It got multi-formats and editions.  To dismiss that is just not being honest of the deal. As I and some others stated many times over, it's not only about the Re-issues.  It's about housing her whole back catalog and being able to curate new projects out of it as well as allow her songs to be marketed to TV, MOVIES, COMMERCIALS, etc.  And you can bet, nothing gets done without Madonna's approval.

[steady75 9,921]

6 minutes ago, GregVsMatt said:

The thing most people don't seem to understand is everything we have so far is from M - she is the decision maker and it's mostly designed in house by her team too. Rhino / Warner create what her team sends them and cannot release it until she decides. They work for her. Every digital release is also requested by (Gambler for example) or approved by M. Rhino cannot release anything without her approval. 

So this is essentially The Grillz but magnified by 1000%

[maddy1111 1,784]

8 minutes ago, GregVsMatt said:

The thing most people don't seem to understand is everything we have so far is from M - she is the decision maker and it's mostly designed in house by her team too. Rhino / Warner create what her team sends them and cannot release it until she decides. They work for her. Every digital release is also requested by (Gambler for example) or approved by M. Rhino cannot release anything without her approval. 

So basically what I wrote at the end of my previous post 

"the rest is probably just a headache for Warner executives" 

[steady75 9,921]

I’d also add that while she was brilliant for a lot of her career her strongest asset was working with and taking advice from collaborators and record execs. Her career dipped like a mother fucker on so many fronts as soon as she said she was leaving Warner mid Hard Candy. Her instincts while good are not always great in terms of marketing her product. 

[Adonna 18,104]

15 minutes ago, steady75 said:

I’d also add that while she was brilliant for a lot of her career her strongest asset was working with and taking advice from collaborators and record execs. Her career dipped like a mother fucker on so many fronts as soon as she said she was leaving Warner mid Hard Candy. Her instincts while good are not always great in terms of marketing her product. 

Yes, but remember she did have that huge Live Nation 360 deal which made her a lot of money.  Warner just couldn't match it. The real fuck up is Live Nation couldn't get around becoming a distributor.  Therefore, that left her scrambling for a record label to distribute MDNA.  Leaving her and her manager up to promotion for the most part. 

And we have to remember, she was already having issues with Warner as far back as the Music album. I actually think her greatest strengths is marketing.  She knew how to market herself very well.  Also, all through her career, she would spend as less money as possible (for the most part) in hopes to keep as much money to herself.  And as non-punctual she was on her last several tours, she was always strict about the time she was in the studios and how long it took to film music videos.

[Alpha 1,513]

2 hours ago, Adonna said:

Nope. Fan fiction.  But I'd love if he was part of it.  Anyway, there's really nothing to talk about until they have one finished and ready to go. We know she has a team of people cultivating her back catalog.  Among these people, are those who are responsible for assembling the re-issues. I never expected them to be released right away. And I always thought the first one wouldn't come until or at least the 40th Anniversary of the first album.  But I can see maybe that isn't considered a landmark album. 

People saying nothing has happened in the three years are really just saying, they don't like what's been released/done so far.  That's fine, but many of us actually did enjoy FEL and the fact her digital/streaming catalog is continually getting up dated. 

For me, the Erotica picture disc alone was worth it. I can understand the lack of patience. I think thats actually a good sign that there is a market for it and fans want them. Its when fans get catty that it becomes a bummer.

[Alpha 1,513]

22 minutes ago, Adonna said:

Yes, but remember she did have that huge Live Nation 360 deal which made her a lot of money.  Warner just couldn't match it. The real fuck up is Live Nation couldn't get around becoming a distributor.  Therefore, that left her scrambling for a record label to distribute MDNA.  Leaving her and her manager up to promotion for the most part. 

And we have to remember, she was already having issues with Warner as far back as the Music album. I actually think her greatest strengths is marketing.  She knew how to market herself very well.  Also, all through her career, she would spend as less money as possible (for the most part) in hopes to keep as much money to herself.  And as non-punctual she was on her last several tours, she was always strict about the time she was in the studios and how long it took to film music videos.

What artists were the biggest money makers with live nation? 

[Adonna 18,104]

13 minutes ago, Alpha said:

What artists were the biggest money makers with live nation? 

Well, they are a concert promoter, so most all artists made money for Live Nation.  But yeah, Madonna, Jay Z, Nickelback and Shakira all signed big recording deals with them. JayZ signed the biggest deal for 150 Million.  I'm not sure how much money they brought them from the deals but Madonna's tours definitely made a lot of money through the deal. 

 

23 minutes ago, Alpha said:

For me, the Erotica picture disc alone was worth it. I can understand the lack of patience. I think thats actually a good sign that there is a market for it and fans want them. Its when fans get catty that it becomes a bummer.

I loved the American Life Mix Show and FEL the best.  Those were big winners for me.  And yes, that Erotica pic disc was awesome to get.  I understand those who are impatient who want the "expanded re-issues".  It's just when some jump in and act like nothing has happened with the deal or think that the re-issues is the only thing to the deal seems a little weird to me. It's as if they can't grasp what this deal is all about. It's more than just those damn re-issues!  LOL! 

[steady75 9,921]

I mean yeah if you think Madonna getting an absolute shit load of cash vs what was better for her artistry, output and fans between 2009-2021 then great. I know what I’d rather have had as a fan. But yeah business wins god forbid artistry and output should triumph. 

[Alpha 1,513]

42 minutes ago, Adonna said:

Well, they are a concert promoter, so most all artists made money for Live Nation.  But yeah, Madonna, Jay Z, Nickelback and Shakira all signed big recording deals with them. JayZ signed the biggest deal for 150 Million.  I'm not sure how much money they brought them from the deals but Madonna's tours definitely made a lot of money through the deal. 

 

I loved the American Life Mix Show and FEL the best.  Those were big winners for me.  And yes, that Erotica pic disc was awesome to get.  I understand those who are impatient who want the "expanded re-issues".  It's just when some jump in and act like nothing has happened with the deal or think that the re-issues is the only thing to the deal seems a little weird to me. It's as if they can't grasp what this deal is all about. It's more than just those damn re-issues!  LOL! 

How did Jay-Z get to be where he's at yet Madonna didnt? I feel Jay became massive. 

[Adonna 18,104]

19 minutes ago, Alpha said:

How did Jay-Z get to be where he's at yet Madonna didnt? I feel Jay became massive. 

I do agree, but he's a huge in the hip hop world. He' s around since the 80's.  He has done a lot of guest features with many artists as well. He's also been in a number of films and been behind a lot of producing in music and films as well.  He scored some really collaboration hits with Mariah Carey, Beyonce, Rhianna, Linkin Park, etc.  He's spread himself around in so many genres even opening up for people like U2, Coldplay and Sean Combs and co-headlining for Linkin Park, Eminem, 50 Cent, Justin Timberlake and Beyonce.  Love him or hate him, he's really worked his ass off in the business to get where he is.

[Adonna 18,104]

39 minutes ago, steady75 said:

I mean yeah if you think Madonna getting an absolute shit load of cash vs what was better for her artistry, output and fans between 2009-2021 then great. I know what I’d rather have had as a fan. But yeah business wins god forbid artistry and output should triumph. 

Who said that?  Why can't she have both?  In fact, that's how I see it.  She's got a shit load of money and has triumphed in her artistry and output.  Let's not overdramatize everything being discussed here.  I think it's safe to say she's proven herself as an artist and business woman equally and very successfully.  No other pop star 40 years in still can captivate and draw in the huge audience she still does. 

[MikeyK 776]

4 hours ago, Alpha said:

How did Jay-Z get to be where he's at yet Madonna didnt? I feel Jay became massive. 

Well let’s be honest though at least some of that is bc of his wife lol. He’s a hip hop legend for sure and always will be but if it wasn’t for being married to Beyonce he likely wouldn’t be as perennially A-list as he is. He’d be like Dr. Dre or Snoop or Eminem.

[MikeyK 776]

Re: M’s Live Nation 360- didn’t that deal revolve around touring? I thought it was always part of it that she’d have to pick up distribution for new music elsewhere. Interscope did ok w/MDNA but sorta gave up after that.

Not sure if comparable but Interscope seems to do that w/other artists too, even younger ones. Gaga, Billie Eilish, Olivia Rodrigo all had a ton of effort and $$$ put into initial releases then they sorta peace out or at least let them fend for themselves on subsequent ones.

[Adonna 18,104]

23 minutes ago, MikeyK said:

Re: M’s Live Nation 360- didn’t that deal revolve around touring? I thought it was always part of it that she’d have to pick up distribution for new music elsewhere. Interscope did ok w/MDNA but sorta gave up after that.

Not sure if comparable but Interscope seems to do that w/other artists too, even younger ones. Gaga, Billie Eilish, Olivia Rodrigo all had a ton of effort and $$$ put into initial releases then they sorta peace out or at least let them fend for themselves on subsequent ones.

No Live Nation was originally planning to go the distribution route as well.  The deal encompasses all of Madonna's future music and music-related businesses, including the Madonna brand, new studio albums, touring, merchandising, fan club and Web site, DVDs, music-related television and film projects, and associated sponsorship agreement. Unfortunately, LN failed on distribution, so that left Madonna to strike up an additional three album distribution deal with Interscope.  It was up to Madonna and Guy to promote the album.  The Superbowl was a good launching pad, but after that they knew they were on their own.  Touring quickly after the album release, was their best bet of making any money from that album.

[littlestartman 89]

The Live Nation Deal made sense at the time and they made so much money but she toured more in her 50s than ever in her carreer and that took a big toll on her. The albums had no A&R behind them and she was kind of lost

[Alpha 1,513]

1 hour ago, MikeyK said:

Re: M’s Live Nation 360- didn’t that deal revolve around touring? I thought it was always part of it that she’d have to pick up distribution for new music elsewhere. Interscope did ok w/MDNA but sorta gave up after that.

Not sure if comparable but Interscope seems to do that w/other artists too, even younger ones. Gaga, Billie Eilish, Olivia Rodrigo all had a ton of effort and $$$ put into initial releases then they sorta peace out or at least let them fend for themselves on subsequent ones.

Well, Natalia Kills mentions how they prioritized Gaga over her and kinda implied Gaga had something to do with that as well. Shirley Manson also mentioned not too long ago that apparently she was on a flight and bumped into an unamed big rock star who is influential and that they apparently told her they were in a meeting and that Interscope flat out said they couldn't have two female led bands so they'd rather promote and support No Doubt over Garbage and that led to all the issues the band had.

[Prayer 15,131]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Well, Natalia Kills mentions how they prioritized Gaga over her and kinda implied Gaga had something to do with that as well. Shirley Manson also mentioned not too long ago that apparently she was on a flight and bumped into an unamed big rock star who is influential and that they apparently told her they were in a meeting and that Interscope flat out said they couldn't have two female led bands so they'd rather promote and support No Doubt over Garbage and that led to all the issues the band had.

Madonna never had a chance against Gaga in getting attention, push and promotion from Interscope/Universal, since Gaga was a direct contracted artist for them while Madonna was simply an exclusive license expiring after X years. They were never going to spend the big money promoting something it wouldn't even be theirs after a number of years.

Yes, M. made tons of money with the Live Nation deal but she also lost the mainstream market for the first time. Even with "Hard Candy" she was still an A-list seller with proper mainstream hit singles. Then after "GMAYL" she never had a proper hit until "Popular" last year.

The Garbage story is sadly true. Interscope did them so wrong.

[Brendanlovesu1 12,782]

28 minutes ago, Prayer said:

The Garbage story is sadly true. Interscope did them so wrong.

Garbage were used to being a big band on Mushroom in the UK/Australia and Almo/Geffen in the US and Almo sold Garbage to Interscope without asking their permission so Garbage became a small band on a big label and sort of floundered there. 

Of course 9/11 didn't help sales of beautiful garbage either, and they had Butch Vig, a well respected producer so he did all of Garbage's A&R himself so they were sort of left to their own devices while at Interscope

They was 100% done dirty by Jerry Moss, co founder of Almo, glad they've went fully independent now

[maddy1111 1,784]

18 hours ago, Adonna said:

Yes, but remember she did have that huge Live Nation 360 deal which made her a lot of money.  Warner just couldn't match it. The real fuck up is Live Nation couldn't get around becoming a distributor.  Therefore, that left her scrambling for a record label to distribute MDNA.  Leaving her and her manager up to promotion for the most part. 

And we have to remember, she was already having issues with Warner as far back as the Music album. I actually think her greatest strengths is marketing.  She knew how to market herself very well.  Also, all through her career, she would spend as less money as possible (for the most part) in hopes to keep as much money to herself.  And as non-punctual she was on her last several tours, she was always strict about the time she was in the studios and how long it took to film music videos.

It's a very interesting discussion happening here. 

I understand the deal with LiveNation, It made her a huge amount of money, and I completely understand why she signed with them at that time. However the other point of view would be if it was really worth it (not from money point of view). 

We can think whatever we want about Hard Candy, but she was still huge at that time. Sticky and Sweet being her biggest tour, 4 Minutes being a huge hit in US etc. Warner actually did a good job to keep her relevant. 

Deal with LiveNation made her money, but the main question here is if it was worth it having multiple years of messy eras (MDNA, Rebel Heart, Madame X) and, let's be honest, significantly dropping her status and relevancy as marketing genius and Queen of Pop. We can talk here about ageism in pop music as well, but I strongly believe the drop wouldn't be so drastical under Warner leadership. At least, eras wouldn't be such a mess and Warner would actually care much more about albums becoming hits (and trying to have a few hit singles). What happened after moving to LiveNation was they simply didn't care about any of the albums there at LN (naturally) and the albums (especially MDNA and Rebel Heart) basically became only ammendments and reason to tour,as I see it. 

[Prayer 15,131]

14 minutes ago, maddy1111 said:

It's a very interesting discussion happening here. 

I understand the deal with LiveNation, It made her a huge amount of money, and I completely understand why she signed with them at that time. However the other point of view would be if it was really worth it (not from money point of view). 

We can think whatever we want about Hard Candy, but she was still huge at that time. Sticky and Sweet being her biggest tour, 4 Minutes being a huge hit in US etc. Warner actually did a good job to keep her relevant. 

Deal with LiveNation made her money, but the main question here is if it was worth it having multiple years of messy eras (MDNA, Rebel Heart, Madame X) and, let's be honest, significantly dropping her status and relevancy as marketing genius and Queen of Pop. We can talk here about ageism in pop music as well, but I strongly believe the drop wouldn't be so drastical under Warner leadership. At least, eras wouldn't be such a mess and Warner would actually care much more about albums becoming hits (are trying to have a few hit singles). What happened after moving to LiveNation was they simply didn't care about any of the albums there at LN (naturally) and the albums (especially MDNA and Rebel Heart) basically became only ammendments and reason to tour,as I see it. 

It's impossible to know, what happened happened anyway. I think she would have suffered a big drop anyway, the world drastically changed in those years (2009-2012) with social media dynamics changing everything forever and new big popstars capturing the general public interest (Gaga, Katy, Kesha for a period of time, Ariana, etc). Then mid 10s pop music changed too and everything became vibes and beats instead of classic pop melodies. Also, youth and beauty is glorified probably more than ever. It was a weird decade anyway.

She navigated through it as best as she could without having a proper big label support machine behind her.

Probably Warner would have done a better job in keeping her up there, but let's remember also how Cher released "Closer To The Truth" (Warner) in 2013 and it did what it did. In the end, trying to get people on their teenage years or their 20s to connect with a 50-60 year old artist is always going to be a challenge now. All you needed before was a huge monster hit ("Believe", "Hung Up") and promote it in a big way, now it's not that easy.

Then, "Popular" became huge last year, so you never know what's going to work with people in the end.

[steady75 9,921]

9 hours ago, Adonna said:

Who said that?  Why can't she have both?  In fact, that's how I see it.  She's got a shit load of money and has triumphed in her artistry and output.  Let's not overdramatize everything being discussed here.  I think it's safe to say she's proven herself as an artist and business woman equally and very successfully.  No other pop star 40 years in still can captivate and draw in the huge audience she still does. 

She can pull on those numbers because her career was carefully and successfully managed for 35 years with one multinational record company and execs who knew what they were doing. She already fucked up her own record label and then thought I’m gonna go with a new venture again some years later? Instincts change too. What she might have had in terms of drive and instinct in the 80’s and 90’s certainly waned towards the 2010’s where her interests lay elsewhere. Hard Candy, MDNA and Madame X are the three most polarising Madonna albums in the fan base and probably outside of it. Rebel Heart is a fave of mine but it was messy as hell and certainly had its detractors. Her late starts times, her previously erratic and odd social media presence and continued messing with facial and assial perfection certainly shows her artistic and social metric has been somewhat distracted from her Warner years. Even the schizophrenic digital singles releases and the FEL tracklist where the woman is rewriting the charts for herself is a WTF moment. She don’t always make the best decisions.
 

Did everyone try the Black Madonna? 
I thought the Black Madonna was …… fucking dumb. 

Look.. I love my mom and it’s her life and career and it’s been brilliant and I’m just some ranting British Cig on the inter web. But we don’t have to gloss over the missteps and WTF moments. We’ve all probably felt a little “hmmm ok” about some of her career and personal choices since her freedom from Warner. She’s a women in charge. Good for her. But I respect her enough not to patronise her. She’s made missteps and her career since Warner has been patchy as fuck. 
..and now we’re at the mercy of her in house team (Ricardo god help us) throwing crumbs every 12 months or so to Warner HQ and not Warner creating them and Madonna signing them off? This is actually the worst thing I’ve heard about the deal so far and actually I’m a bit gutted at this new info. 

Prove me wrong mother please 🙏🏻 

[Pootz333 2,806]

1 hour ago, steady75 said:

She can pull on those numbers because her career was carefully and successfully managed for 35 years with one multinational record company and execs who knew what they were doing. She already fucked up her own record label and then thought I’m gonna go with a new venture again some years later? Instincts change too. What she might have had in terms of drive and instinct in the 80’s and 90’s certainly waned towards the 2010’s where her interests lay elsewhere. Hard Candy, MDNA and Madame X are the three most polarising Madonna albums in the fan base and probably outside of it. Rebel Heart is a fave of mine but it was messy as hell and certainly had its detractors. Her late starts times, her previously erratic and odd social media presence and continued messing with facial and assial perfection certainly shows her artistic and social metric has been somewhat distracted from her Warner years. Even the schizophrenic digital singles releases and the FEL tracklist where the woman is rewriting the charts for herself is a WTF moment. She don’t always make the best decisions.
 

Did everyone try the Black Madonna? 
I thought the Black Madonna was …… fucking dumb. 

Look.. I love my mom and it’s her life and career and it’s been brilliant and I’m just some ranting British Cig on the inter web. But we don’t have to gloss over the missteps and WTF moments. We’ve all probably felt a little “hmmm ok” about some of her career and personal choices since her freedom from Warner. She’s a women in charge. Good for her. But I respect her enough not to patronise her. She’s made missteps and her career since Warner has been patchy as fuck. 
..and now we’re at the mercy of her in house team (Ricardo god help us) throwing crumbs every 12 months or so to Warner HQ and not Warner creating them and Madonna signing them off? This is actually the worst thing I’ve heard about the deal so far and actually I’m a bit gutted at this new info. 

Prove me wrong mother please 🙏🏻 

You know what time it is. And you know how this place is. Everyone here thinks the last 15 years were no different from 1990.