The Official M new Music SPECULATION thread 👑

[ChromaticanMondasia 484]

1 hour ago, Debord said:

Presumably it's cos the Brazil show is going to be all over the media next week.

Oh I hope it's a success

12 hours ago, Pedro Beltran said:

Well she’s just making around 2 million a night for this tour (as per calculations of earlier contacts and info that has transpired over the years) so she can easily churn a new album and tour it in a few years time when she and the market has rested 

She has won a ton of new fans with this tour and made a tone of amazing publicity for herself 

Like I know Incredible gets bashing by fans but honestly I played the song recently and just feel ....it sounds so unique in isolation to anything out there today Madonna and Pharrell really brought it to the table the layers and textures and styles don't feel like anything today

[ChromaticanMondasia 484]

Sorry can't help these quotes if you get quotes not sure why when I reply I can't remove it forgive me ;-)

 

And yeah I mean Taylor Swift is in her second imperial phase from 2020-now she seems to have hit the cultural g spot massively like the marvel universe right now ! 

But it's helping the industry massively ....everything else is pretty much dead 

[ChromaticanMondasia 484]

And I think as fans we take for granted that in previous decades Madonna literally WAS the social media movement whatever style aesthetic story sound lyrics performance video etc became the moment and impacted culture massively 

That post 2007 media it'self started to change hugely like genuinely massively I couldn't believe the ruse of social media sbdbthibgsbbring colossal before they were ready 

Hard Candy I feel could've been bigger than it was for sure ....it was number 1 everywhere sold 6 million etc but my days with effort she could've made MDNA get a bigger launch pads too like whilst I like the albums a lot I do think man if she worked with different producers or styles or aesthetics those albums would be considered a lot more highly just with tweaks here and there to have made them bigger 

2012 you literally had Madonna everywhere even without a promo tour she dominated then 2013 it all went much quieter all of a sudden it's bizarre the way it all works in the digital streaming age but I do hope that this tour will help in her platform going forward 

 

[ChromaticanMondasia 484]

Like I sometimes fantasise if Hard Candy she worked with Chase and Status with Stuart price still to create a more harder edged album 

Or MDNA she went the more Diplo/Skrillex/Avicii route and REBEL HEART she went the Dev Hynes, Disclosure route and Madame X Honey Dijon route 

[Pedro Beltran 4,729]

1 hour ago, ChromaticanMondasia said:

Like I sometimes fantasise if Hard Candy she worked with Chase and Status with Stuart price still to create a more harder edged album 

Or MDNA she went the more Diplo/Skrillex/Avicii route and REBEL HEART she went the Dev Hynes, Disclosure route and Madame X Honey Dijon route 

MDNA just needs a remaster the songs sounds unfinished and muffled 

The rest are fine ❣️

[Alibaba 1,529]

I think it makes more sense to compare Madonna to her contemporaries who are still recording instead of trying to figure out how she could compete with Taylor Swift, who is in her second imperial phase (I’d question if she has quite the cross-cultural appeal we are led to believe - she benefited from being celebrated in country and successfully crossed over to pop, but she probably doesn’t register in any other genre from what I’ve observed, and she really doesn’t have a hugely memorable back catalog - As Neil Tennant recently asked, “What’s her Billie Jean?”. When the journalist retorted “Shake It Off”, his response was a simple “but is it?”).
 

Pet Shop Boys have released four albums since 2013, have a very loyal fanbase, and the media in the UK always give them a lot of attention when they release anything new. They seem to love making music, and they still follow traditional promotional strategy successfully. They don’t sell anything close to what they did 30 years ago, but they are beloved. No one writes them off as a failed legacy act. If Madonna wants to continue being a pop star/artist,  she can do similarly and still guarantee at least double the interest and sales that they garner. That’s still winning, but it seems the only person who isn’t onboard with this path is Madonna herself! I hope she gives us at least one more season of pop to add to her illustrious career. As the most fascinating popular artist remaining, it would be hard to imagine her going out on Madame X. 

[Debord 471]

4 minutes ago, Alibaba said:

I think it makes more sense to compare Madonna to her contemporaries who are still recording instead of trying to figure out how she could compete with Taylor Swift, who is in her second imperial phase (I’d question if she has quite the cross-cultural appeal we are led to believe - she benefited from being celebrated in country and successfully crossed over to pop, but she probably doesn’t register in any other genre from what I’ve observed, and she really doesn’t have a hugely memorable back catalog - As Neil Tennant recently asked, “What’s her Billie Jean?”. When the journalist retorted “Shake It Off”, his response was a simple “but is it?”).
 

Pet Shop Boys have released four albums since 2013, have a very loyal fanbase, and the media in the UK always give them a lot of attention when they release anything new. They seem to love making music, and they still follow traditional promotional strategy successfully. They don’t sell anything close to what they did 30 years ago, but they are beloved. No one writes them off as a failed legacy act. If Madonna wants to continue being a pop star/artist,  she can do similarly and still guarantee at least double the interest and sales that they garner. That’s still winning, but it seems the only person who isn’t onboard with this path is Madonna herself! I hope she gives us at least one more season of pop to add to her illustrious career. As the most fascinating popular artist remaining, it would be hard to imagine her going out on Madame X. 

Pet Shop Boys have had their moments where they've tried a new direction and fans have hated it (something they referenced in the BBC doc). So now they put out albums which sound like what people expect Pet Shop Boys albums to sound like. I would take Madame X anyway over Madonna doing a "this is what people expect from me" album, unless her heart is really in making that kind of record. We'll see!

[Pedro Beltran 4,729]

Of course Madonna has more records on her, but the b… I mean the queen better speed up.

I’m a PSB regular fan, their four last albums couldn’t be more different among each other, I like them but as everyone they have their creative peaks and valleys 

They have been pretty consistent in quality and regularity of their products 

I love Madame X but I wouldn’t mind a joyous pop song like the ones she churn out, it seems like she has lost the Midas touch to manufacture a great simple hook 🪝 

[Debord 471]

11 minutes ago, Pedro Beltran said:

Of course Madonna has more records on her, but the b… I mean the queen better speed up.

I’m a PSB regular fan, their four last albums couldn’t be more different among each other, I like them but as everyone they have their creative peaks and valleys 

They have been pretty consistent in quality and regularity of their products 

I love Madame X but I wouldn’t mind a joyous pop song like the ones she churn out, it seems like she has lost the Midas touch to manufacture a great simple hook 🪝 

I'm a big PSB fan (and going to see them for the umpteenth time in a few weeks) but they're very much in traditional legacy act territory - making records reminiscent of their peak era, which get respectful reviews and debut in the top ten but then vanish from the chart and no-one but the most hardcore of fans ever listens to them again. Obviously a record like Madame X didn't cut through but I think that's in part cos it was a 'difficult' pop album and I think it was Madonna firing on all creative cylinders (and I think there's plenty of hooks in there).

If we're going to compare Madonna to her peers, let's compare her to her actual peers. Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney, George Michael are all gone. Janet hasn't done a record in 9 years. U2 haven't done a new record in 7 years. Mariah hasn't done a new record in 6 years. Acts like Bon Jovi and Red Hot Chili Peppers have their own vociferous fanbases who loudly complain that the stuff they put out now is nowhere near as good as their classic stuff. Fans of 'legacy' artists need to adjust expectations and think about how nostalgia and ageing feeds into fandom. As Madonna fans I think we're pretty lucky.

[Pedro Beltran 4,729]

1 hour ago, Debord said:

I'm a big PSB fan (and going to see them for the umpteenth time in a few weeks) but they're very much in traditional legacy act territory - making records reminiscent of their peak era, which get respectful reviews and debut in the top ten but then vanish from the chart and no-one but the most hardcore of fans ever listens to them again. Obviously a record like Madame X didn't cut through but I think that's in part cos it was a 'difficult' pop album and I think it was Madonna firing on all creative cylinders (and I think there's plenty of hooks in there).

If we're going to compare Madonna to her peers, let's compare her to her actual peers. Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney, George Michael are all gone. Janet hasn't done a record in 9 years. U2 haven't done a new record in 7 years. Mariah hasn't done a new record in 6 years. Acts like Bon Jovi and Red Hot Chili Peppers have their own vociferous fanbases who loudly complain that the stuff they put out now is nowhere near as good as their classic stuff. Fans of 'legacy' artists need to adjust expectations and think about how nostalgia and ageing feeds into fandom. As Madonna fans I think we're pretty lucky.

I agree with almost everything

PSB make their money touring I think I’ve seen them 6 times in the last three records that’s why I think they can  do what their fans ask from them  I wouldn’t consider Super or Electric are typical PSB but if you feel they are that’s ok  

as Madonna fans we are super lucky but that’s were I differ with you we must compare to the artist of their light who are living and producing, Taylor is a kid-teen market, but Beyoncé who hadn’t had a hit in years is dominating the conversation in a way I would love Madonna to do again  

 

[Debord 471]

20 minutes ago, Pedro Beltran said:

I agree with almost everything

PSB make their money touring I think I’ve seen them 6 times in the last three records that’s why I think they can  do what their fans ask from them  I wouldn’t consider Super or Electric are typical PSB but if you feel they are that’s ok  

as Madonna fans we are super lucky but that’s were I differ with you we must compare to the artist of their light who are living and producing, Taylor is a kid-teen market, but Beyoncé who hadn’t had a hit in years is dominating the conversation in a way I would love Madonna to do again  

 

The folk I mentioned are Madonna's peers though, not Beyonce. When Madonna was Beyonce's age she was doing the Music album. A woman approaching 70 who's been going for over 40 years is never going to be dominating the charts again and even the attention her albums and tours still get is hugely atypical.

[Pedro Beltran 4,729]

9 minutes ago, Debord said:

The folk I mentioned are Madonna's peers though, not Beyonce. When Madonna was Beyonce's age she was doing the Music album. A woman approaching 70 who's been going for over 40 years is never going to be dominating the charts again and even the attention her albums and tours still get is hugely atypical.

You notice in my post that I didn’t mention that I wanted hits for Madonna, what I want great products that because of it’s greatness they dominate the conversation… 

Beyonce hadn’t had a hit in years, but yes she is 42 years old, so you say that Madonna can’t make an outstanding album like Reinassance because she’s 65? 

I don’t think that the attention she gets is atypical on the contrary it’s a well deserved attention after 40 years of excellence and outstanding work 

[Debord 471]

18 minutes ago, Pedro Beltran said:

You notice in my post that I didn’t mention that I wanted hits for Madonna, what I want great products that because of it’s greatness they dominate the conversation… 

Beyonce hadn’t had a hit in years, but yes she is 42 years old, so you say that Madonna can’t make an outstanding album like Reinassance because she’s 65? 

I don’t think that the attention she gets is atypical on the contrary it’s a well deserved attention after 40 years of excellence and outstanding work 

I meant it's atypical for artists of her age and longevity.

Beyonce's albums preceding Renaissance were hits. But my point wasn't about quality (I think Madame X is brilliant) it's that absolutely no-one of Madonna's era has big albums like that. It's always been the case to an extent cos pop music is so youth-oriented but it's particularly so now streaming dominates everything. Again, look at her actual peers - whom amongst them are having big albums "dominating conversation"?

[Pedro Beltran 4,729]

9 minutes ago, Debord said:

I meant it's atypical for artists of her age and longevity.

Beyonce's albums preceding Renaissance were hits. But my point wasn't about quality (I think Madame X is brilliant) it's that absolutely no-one of Madonna's era has big albums like that. It's always been the case to an extent cos pop music is so youth-oriented but it's particularly so now streaming dominates everything. Again, look at her actual peers - whom amongst them are having big albums "dominating conversation"?

Aren’t they death? 💀 

Kylie??? Padam padam???

[Debord 471]

Just now, Pedro Beltran said:

Aren’t they death? 💀 

Kylie??? Padam padam???

I listed some that were alive. Kylie (a decade younger than M) had a top ten hit in the UK, it was a hit almost nowhere else, and the album it was from vanished from the charts within 3 weeks. It's hardly comparable to Beyonce.

[Pedro Beltran 4,729]

23 minutes ago, Debord said:

I listed some that were alive. Kylie (a decade younger than M) had a top ten hit in the UK, it was a hit almost nowhere else, and the album it was from vanished from the charts within 3 weeks. It's hardly comparable to Beyonce.

 

We aren’t comparing Kylie to Beyoncé, you asked who in her league is dominating the conversation, I responded:

- Kylie (even with 3 weeks on the charts) had the gay anthem of that season… and was everywhere in social media 

As long a Madonna is the bar who everyone is measured against she’ll be the standard.

Didn’t Courtney Love mention recently that Taylor isn’t the new Madonna, as she remains the cultural reference we will as fans desire for her to dominate the conversation 

[ChromaticanMondasia 484]

I think the main reason we compare is because Madonna herself has put herself in being ahead of the game and really being out there with the big players of music and entertainment and art 

Taylor Swift, Ariana, Beyonce, Dua Lipa, Billie Eilish are the ones she would want to be contender with 

She's not concerned about peers I adore PSB saw them last summer and they were incredible but she creates her new albums to access out of hardcore fanbsse ....she knows she's got a huge audience and critics and media will latch into it Madame X imo could've been huger if for example she had a big hit to lead it ...age isn't an issue Old Town Road with Lil Nas X and Billy Ray Cyrus was COLOSSAL that year for example of a song and story hits the narrative to launch an era it could be big for the album 

Renaissance imo is not a good album ..  it's full of concepts and is a great study in the art of dance music through black queer angle BUT without Break my Soul leading the way I doubt it would've struck a chord to build an era out of for cowboy carer to now fly 

See where I'm getting at!? MDNA, RH, MX I do feel if orchestrated slight differently they could've been bigger in hindsight but she didn't adapt the way she could've 

Kylie's Padam Padam at 55 years old for example hit it hard it trended it became a hit and Tension was a critical and commercial darling too her third era in a row well engineered ....now I for one find her recent albums a bit "meh" but they're decent and the aesthetics you cannot fault 

But I just think had her recent three eras been better orchestrated I do feel she could've nailed each one different 

Madonna shouldn't be compared to her peers her peers are her competitive rs! And she's always wanted to be ahead of whatevers out right now in the arts 

[Pedro Beltran 4,729]

5 minutes ago, ChromaticanMondasia said:

I think the main reason we compare is because Madonna herself has put herself in being ahead of the game and really being out there with the big players of music and entertainment and art 

Taylor Swift, Ariana, Beyonce, Dua Lipa, Billie Eilish are the ones she would want to be contender with 

She's not concerned about peers I adore PSB saw them last summer and they were incredible but she creates her new albums to access out of hardcore fanbsse ....she knows she's got a huge audience and critics and media will latch into it Madame X imo could've been huger if for example she had a big hit to lead it ...age isn't an issue Old Town Road with Lil Nas X and Billy Ray Cyrus was COLOSSAL that year for example of a song and story hits the narrative to launch an era it could be big for the album 

Renaissance imo is not a good album ..  it's full of concepts and is a great study in the art of dance music through black queer angle BUT without Break my Soul leading the way I doubt it would've struck a chord to build an era out of for cowboy carer to now fly 

See where I'm getting at!? MDNA, RH, MX I do feel if orchestrated slight differently they could've been bigger in hindsight but she didn't adapt the way she could've 

Kylie's Padam Padam at 55 years old for example hit it hard it trended it became a hit and Tension was a critical and commercial darling too her third era in a row well engineered ....now I for one find her recent albums a bit "meh" but they're decent and the aesthetics you cannot fault 

But I just think had her recent three eras been better orchestrated I do feel she could've nailed each one different 

Madonna shouldn't be compared to her peers her peers are her competitive rs! And she's always wanted to be ahead of whatevers out right now in the arts 

Whaaaaaaaat? It’s an amazing album with break my soul being the least of its wonders. 

[Robertthenurse 2,973]

Ya Renaissance is fiya

[Alibaba 1,529]

My post was not to compare Madonna based upon who she might want to be compared to or who a part of her fanbase thinks she should be emulating, but to refocus or shift the narrative to comparing her with artists who are actually still producing new music, who still garner attention, and who have been around as long as her and are therefore her contemporaries whether she sees it that way or not. In my opinion it makes no sense to compare her to deceased artists who subsequently haven’t created anything in over a decade and who didn’t have a particularly interesting latter part of their careers anyway. Pet Shop Boys fit this description perfectly (in my opinion), and it is only personal opinion that dictates that someone else might think that their last four albums were all pandering to their audience. I think that’s absolutely untrue, and they are not acting like or perceived as legacy acts in my opinion and experience. They are also highly cultivated, intelligent people, and I prefer to think of Madonna as such, and I personally wouldn’t say that of any of the current crop of pop stars mentioned.  
 

As for Madame X, I didn’t denigrate it. In fact, I wrote an entire review of it that can still be read in the Madame X section, and it was very detailed and complimentary. That said, I certainly don’t count it among my preferred Madonna albums as it is a bit dreary and bloated with hindsight. I wouldn’t want it to be her last pop album. It feels like something is still missing. I feel she has a late period pop masterpiece in her, and I think I’ll be proven right! She’s Madonna, after all.

[Debord 471]

7 hours ago, Pedro Beltran said:

 

We aren’t comparing Kylie to Beyoncé, you asked who in her league is dominating the conversation, I responded:

- Kylie (even with 3 weeks on the charts) had the gay anthem of that season… and was everywhere in social media 

As long a Madonna is the bar who everyone is measured against she’ll be the standard.

Didn’t Courtney Love mention recently that Taylor isn’t the new Madonna, as she remains the cultural reference we will as fans desire for her to dominate the conversation 

My response was pointing out Kylie didn't remotely "dominate the conversation" in the way Beyonce (your example) did. She had one hit in one country. Madonna also hit the top ten in the UK last year.

[Debord 471]

1 hour ago, Alibaba said:

My post was not to compare Madonna based upon who she might want to be compared to or who a part of her fanbase thinks she should be emulating, but to refocus or shift the narrative to comparing her with artists who are actually still producing new music, who still garner attention, and who have been around as long as her and are therefore her contemporaries whether she sees it that way or not. In my opinion it makes no sense to compare her to deceased artists who subsequently haven’t created anything in over a decade and who didn’t have a particularly interesting latter part of their careers anyway. Pet Shop Boys fit this description perfectly (in my opinion), and it is only personal opinion that dictates that someone else might think that their last four albums were all pandering to their audience. I think that’s absolutely untrue, and they are not acting like or perceived as legacy acts in my opinion and experience. They are also highly cultivated, intelligent people, and I prefer to think of Madonna as such, and I personally wouldn’t say that of any of the current crop of pop stars mentioned.  
 

As for Madame X, I didn’t denigrate it. In fact, I wrote an entire review of it that can still be read in the Madame X section, and it was very detailed and complimentary. That said, I certainly don’t count it among my preferred Madonna albums as it is a bit dreary and bloated with hindsight. I wouldn’t want it to be her last pop album. It feels like something is still missing. I feel she has a late period pop masterpiece in her, and I think I’ll be proven right! She’s Madonna, after all.

Well indeed, it's all personal opinion ultimately. But PSB are only peers of M in the sense they've been around a similar time, not in any other way and given their albums vanish off the charts in a couple of weeks I can't see what's being said beyond "their albums sound like PSB albums and I didn't really like Madame X very much".

[Redha DBL 7,476]

"Break my soul" is the best dance song of the last 10 years to me. The production is absolutely sublime. The different layers, the beat, the gospel choirs. It's 90's finest dance music made modern, it's urban, it's pop, it's dance. Sublime, absolutely sublime.

[Greekolicious 129]

The thing with PSB (and I do love them) is that they are past making music for "charts". They are at a point in their career where they can record the music they like, they know their fanbase and the sound they like. Same as Kylie, she knows her audience so for lack of better words she plays it safe. With the exemption of Golden, which didn't have the same response from her previous albums, so she went back to the danceflooor. Now with Madonna- and I am sure this probably has been discussed to death- but it's my personal opinion, Hard Candy is when we started seeing the decline. Sure Timbaland & Pharell are great producers, but she was a day late and dollar short on that trend. That sound worked for the likes of Nelly Furtado and Justin Timberlake but it didn't translate well on a Madonna record, and frankly Timbaland has not really updated his sound for many years. Not to say that there weren't great songs on it, but coming from previous albums from Erotica-Confessions working with producers that weren't mainstream and brought them in the pop genre that was always a breakthrough for her. Hard Candy is when she stopped leading and chasing the "what's hot now" trend. MDNA was all over the place, and Rebel Heart was a lot of Madonna with shitload of drama and producers. AGAIN we got some great songs out of them....BUT I feel like she always shines more when the album is cohesive, with limited producers, and better writers.  Madame X personally is not my cup of tea, but I can appreciate the art and concept of it. It felt more like a personal side project she wanted to make...  but again for the 4rd album in a row, there's many MANY features from other artists. Madonna never had an issue carrying and album by herself. I feel like there's so many producers out there waiting to be discovered (and she's good at that) that I hope she comes back to what she does best. Lead.

[Debord 471]

It has been discussed to death and folk rightly point out that M has worked with popular producers heaps and heaps of times prior to Hard Candy. And PSB and Kylie work with popular producers too (I mean Padam is written and produced by one of the biggest current producers!) so it's never exactly clear what the argument is.