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On 9/27/2023 at 9:10 PM, Mden said:
At 45:34
It’s like the 3rd time Bill Maher talked about M in his podcast . He’s a fan. The discussion begins with TS and then morphs into a Madonna comparision .
I saw this last week. He actually cuts Julian off when he wants to share a story about Madonna. Bill Maher spends more time up his own ass than anywhere else due to his narcissism and cannabis consumption, and he’s said some very disparaging things about Madonna too over the years, but he has mentioned Madonna several times lately with a certain reverence. I’ve noticed there might be a trend emerging among a surprising demographic…I have a straight male friend who used to have a go at Madonna, and who has recently been singing her praises and going on about how amazing her enduring legacy is! It’s a topsy turvy world these days! The hetero males are digging Madonna while the homos dump her for Kylie. The gays are fickle though. They’ll flip in a heartbeat once something shinier and newer comes along. 😂
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Just for the sake of balance in this thread, I paid the $10, had a joke at the expense of Niki Harris, and yet I still thoroughly enjoyed participating live. It was a privilege to have the opportunity to see these people reunited on camera for our viewing pleasure after 30 years, and I’m not really sure how anyone can argue against the value of that if you are indeed invested and fascinated enough by Madonna and her journey to participate in discussions about her on a forum. That is a fully conscious observation, and my participation was not just voluntary, but enthusiastically so! I’ve often wondered why we don’t have more opportunities for this type of content given how voracious fans can be, but reading this thread is a reminder of why the Madonna fan experience is a mostly solitary and private one. There’s so little solidarity in this community. Infinity is really a last bastion of some form of regular interaction for fans that is focused, honest and celebratory, but there’s still always the need for what comes across as contrarianism. I can only imagine this comes from some personal imbalance and dissatisfaction…while it’s one thing to seek objectivity about Madonna and anything related to her career, it’s entirely another to just want to shit on other people’s experience. The idea that anyone would insinuate that those of us who participated in this reunion are victims of a scam or lacking taste because we aren’t critical of the MLVC podcast and its content says more about you than us. If you can do better, go ahead! We will gladly come along for the ride. It’s easy to dismiss or criticize as a spectator, but when we dislike something and feel it isn’t up to our standards, that’s a clear invitation to use that energy more constructively.
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10 minutes ago, DJ N A said:
I agree with your statement. I also think that Madonna has not trained her voice regularly since the late 90's/early 2000s. She was in peak performance following Evita. Her voice hasn't been as strong since then for anything that I can think of off the top of my head really. Maybe this has been a factor why they chose the "live mixed vocals" more and more through the years.
I’m pretty sure she trained a lot for Reinvention in 2004 (I mean we actually have footage of her visiting her vocal coach) and for Confessions in 2006. She likely continued to train her vocals beyond that, but her voice changed a good deal with maturity, and I think that is what made her rely more on canned vocals. When a woman’s voice deepens it isn’t as well suited to pop confection-style songs. Madonna’s voice was always naturally lower, and so I hope she embraces that register on the new tour. I can’t take any 1984 Into The Groove helium chorus vocals in massive contrast to 2023 verses. Stuart knows this. I trust that he has made some amazing arrangements that suit her voice as it is today.
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I’ve often wondered if Madonna has recorded in a home studio setup with David and Mercy. There’s likely tons of amateur recordings and cover versions that they’ve done over the years for fun. Maybe we will get to hear those way down the road.
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10 hours ago, Brendanlovesu1 said:
love the oversized safety pins
That’s the same outfit she wore for her 50 questions video last summer, right?
- rlittler81 and Martin P.
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2 hours ago, Blue Jean said:
I really love Nikki but yes. I felt that too. Nikki clearly has a big personality, like Madonna, so it’s not hard to imagine they probably clashed. The fact she was receiving a text from Christopher is interesting to say the least.
I also have to ask did I hear correctly that Mariah Carey was complimenting The Girlie Show band to Nikki or did I hear the name wrong?
I can see how you got that impression from what she was saying about Mariah, but no, I think she was simply saying that Mariah hired (was it Mikey or Victor?) for her band and discovered through him that she could have the band play all types of musical styles and influences, like Spanish etc. At least that’s how I understood it. I think as Tommy Mottola has “known” Madonna for a long time, I don’t doubt he would have had Mariah dip in Madonna’s professional pool in those years before they divorced.
I think Donna decided to no longer tour with M because of family after Confessions, but I had understood that Niki was not asked back for Reinvention. Siedah Garrett has implied she had a hard time working with Donna Delory, which always seemed weird to me. I guess we will never know the truth unless they spill the beans. All I know is Niki Harris leaves a trail of shade whenever the topic is Madonna, but let’s face it…she still gets a lot of mileage out of that legacy, whether she likes M or not, and so gratitude should be a given. Did you hear how quickly she emphasized that she wasn’t shaving her head for the tour because she was singing with Snap! at the time? No Niki. You were on tour with Madonna for six months, and you got PAID. Exterminate was not the reason. 😂
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58 minutes ago, deathproof said:
I found it very interesting to hear their reaction to the Brit awards fall. Completely not what I was expecting. I've always been under the impression that had the Brit dancers reacted like the Girlie dancers, it would have pushed M over the edge.
I always assumed it's an act of professionalism to stay on script while performing, even when things go awry.
I imagine it was very different to work for Madonna in 2015 vs 1993. Madonna was probably far more accessible back then, and they said she did everything with them, and that they functioned as a group. I noticed Niki made a point of saying that what was great about the Girlie Show, aside from the killer band and all the talent, was that Madonna was still open to listening to others. I read that as a thinly veiled explanation for why they no longer worked together beyond Drowned World. Niki wanted to be heard, and Madonna probably put her in her place. Maybe that’s too speculative, but it rang true when I heard her use of words.
I also loved that they were so emphatic that modern concerts lack the live element that was so prevalent on all of M’s tours through GS. It’s true…when I listen to the band on BA and GS they are fucking tight! She really had the best of the best.
- Velvet Rope, Enrico, Gui and 2 others
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It was Niki who got the text from Chris Ciccone. I’m guessing he was invited to the Zoom, but probably avoids speaking publicly on Madonna-related matters nowadays. It was also stated in the Q & A section that Madonna was aware that today’s reunion was taking place.
Niki is a star regardless of what jokes I might have made at her expense! She’s always been the “is this a jazz publication?” type…gave the slight impression she was better than everyone else in the past, and was the only one to really shade M publicly. It’s unsurprising to me that she made a point of telling us all that she was communicating with Christopher! I loved it! 😂 Today, however, she was very generous about the entire experience of the Girlie Show, even if I did notice her lack of responsiveness when others were praising Madonna’s talent and value as a teacher to everyone.
The part I was most intrigued by was the averted plan crash above the Andes going from Puerto Rico to Brazil! I wanted more details, especially after they said Madonna got mad at the pilot for not explaining to everyone what had happened, and then fired him. Of course she wasn’t cowering in fear and was instead ready to cut a bitch! I loved that Carlton shared that The Girlie Show was the adult incarnation of Blond Ambition. Sounds like he, Niki and Donna were glad it didn’t come with the drama of the previous tour, but I was disappointed that my question about whether or not footage was shot for a potential documentary went unanswered.
- Velvet Rope, Gui and Honey Little
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27 minutes ago, Sheridan1980 said:
Just in case, I guess you know Madonna is not 30 and a show like Rebel heart tour is still amazing for a woman who was already near her 60's?
Did you read what I wrote, or were you just anxious to react?
- MaDöner Kebab, dylanlioncourt and Raio_05
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6 hours ago, dankpepe said:
This sort of chronologizes the rumor as they occurred: http://rebel-heart-tour.kazeo.com/the-rebel-heart-tour-setlist-a119983236
I do recall that Addicted was supposedly going to be where Burning Up ended up being. No sense in me typing out any of the drafts listed above because the setlist order changed drastically as time went on with songs going in various sections.
Rumored interludes that didn't make the cut were Candy Shop, Between the Bars, Borrowed Time and Hold Tight
The RHT was so scattered in the end that the setlist felt half baked and ill conceived (opening section being a warrior, then Asian, then fire, then strippers and religion - 2nd section even more random). Hopefully there's a clear vision on this tour.
Agreed. I also didn’t enjoy Rebel Heart in the same way as her previous tours; I wasn’t captivated. It was a combination of factors for me. From a personal perspective, I was surrounded by very jaded audience members who seemed disengaged and were casual admirers at best. The atmosphere was electric on the floor, but the surrounding sections just didn’t seem to feel connected to the same energy! That’s my personal gripe with the (Kia) Forum in LA, which is why I was disappointed that she switched from The Crypto to The Kia following her illness, and subsequent tour delay. Fortunately I’ll be close to the stage both nights I’m scheduled to see her, but there’s something about that arena that feels like a high school auditorium to me! 😂
The RH setlist should have been absolutely solid, but there were some real lulls. Iconic didn’t live up to its name. I found the cage underwhelming, the endless fabric spewing from her body was a travesty, and the clunky choreography was too simple, and she seemed to no longer have the agility to sustain the rhythmic punch that the song required. Deeper and Deeper suffered a similar fate. The medley was an absolute clunker to me; if she’d done it Marika-style, I’d have enjoyed it, but again, it felt like Madonna had no energy to deliver the effervescence the musical arrangement lacked. It dragged on in my opinion. Worst of all was Holiday. As a closer, it felt anticlimactic and uncelebratory. Her costume was also hideous. That’s the second time I was underwhelmed by Holiday, the first being Reinvention. I always felt those two shows were sisters in concept and delivery, except Reinvention had the benefit of Madonna in peak vocal form.
On the other hand, there were some real high points with Devil Pray, Holy Water, True Blue, Heartbreak City/LDLHA, Like A Virgin, Living For Love, La Isla, Rebel Heart, Material Girl, La Vie En Rose…and, for those of us lucky enough to see them, Like A Prayer, Who’s That Girl and Ghosttown. Anything not mentioned I consider decent, but by Madonna’s standards, average. Rebel Rebel would have been a welcome addition had it been added long term to the remaining tour dates.
There was no cohesiveness to the show. It was the first time (aside in part from Reinvention, although that tour at least offered consistent vignettes) where it felt like a mixed bag of performances thrown together. Not fleshed out. Random, and Madonna seemed slightly uninvested at times. In many ways like the album…As much as I think there is some truly great songwriting on Rebel Heart, it just falls slightly flat in certain ways as an era and concept. Of course this is totally subjective, and I have gone back and forth over the years about this! 😂 I have often come to the conclusion that the Rebel Heart tour was the first time we saw Madonna slowing down as a performer, and while the show is impressive, it failed to deliver the type of high octane experience that she kind of sustained or surpassed through MDNA. Poor Madonna! We have such high standards and hold crazy expectations of her!
I am truly hoping for some great conceptual twists around nostagia and legacy on this next tour. Part of me is fearful that with current tours by Beyonce and Taylor Swift being so grandiose, we may be in for something more subdued, but whatever the outcome, I am ready to celebrate! I want to see the artistry in its full power!
- dens54 and MaDöner Kebab
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It’s all fine and in good fun! We are allowed to joke about things related to cost, particularly as this isn’t directly related to Madonna’s pocketbook. As far as I’m concerned, it’s quite natural in this current era of total corporate corruption and social disenfranchisement to be cynical! That said, I think it’s lovely that these people all wish to get together and reminisce. My ticket has been purchased! Unfortunately, I personally don’t yet know if I’ll be able to join the event live, but if timing permits, I certainly will.
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It’s probably to cover Niki Harris’ appearance fee. 😂
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8 hours ago, Pedro Beltran said:
Isn’t this months or a year old?
Yeah. That’s LA, not NY. Taken last May.
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5 hours ago, Blue Skies said:
Madonna running in 1987
I was so confused when I saw Stefanie Powers at the end! 😂
- Blue Skies, BuggedOut and mouse
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5 hours ago, SuperBicycle said:
Shanghai Suprise, only because I lived right up the street from where the opening scenes (and many others around the dock area) in Hong Kong were filmed - thought long before I lived there, and the area has been redeveloped to be unrecognisable.
Ha! I’m from Hong Kong, and was able to see Madonna shooting the film as a young boy! I just remember the crowds were insane, and she did indeed look absolutely miserable.
- SuperBicycle, Prayer and Blue Jean
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11 minutes ago, androiduser said:
i get it, but... they don't even have the nose for money in the movie industry... so odd... I think she just genuinely doesn't understand the film industry. She probably thinks it's the same as the music industry, and what she says goes.
Yeah. Her celluloid career will forever remain one of the great mysteries.
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Just now, androiduser said:
Even as a producer she made questionable choices. I mean.... Agent Cody Banks 2? C'mon.....
The other Guy in her life has very little artistic vision.
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11 minutes ago, androiduser said:
I think she always wanted to be a dramatic/romantic lead, I think that was her goal. She would have been much better as Sarah Connor. I think she wanted the prestige of a "serious" career.
For sure…she grew up being fed the propaganda of silver screen legends and the Hollywood system, and she often emulated the vamps. She got kind of stuck in a filmic time warp. None of Madonna’s films are particularly modern or forward-thinking; sort of the opposite of her music career.
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10 minutes ago, androiduser said:
IF she had the acting chops, she'd be great now in a role like Tanya from The White Lotus.... But I don't think she'd want to play a trainwreck.
I think comedy requires a very special self-awareness combined with a je m’en foutisme that Madonna has oddly had a knack for at very specific times in her career, and then seemingly completely lost. Obviously she went for it in a more naive way with her first SNL appearance, and then in Who’s That Girl, but she perfected it with her early 90s MTV skits (10th Anniversary, Rock the Vote). After that, I don’t think it ever resurfaced 100%…maybe a little when she was with Guy R (The Swept Away pool boy skit, the “But I’m Madonna MTV sketch, and to a lesser degree the Star commercial - but by the time of her marriage to him it always seemed more like his obsession with deconstructing the myth, rather than it being authentically her)…She’s been quite self-serious since then, it would seem. Maybe I’m forgetting something…
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Madonna is a mediocre actress in both films, but Shanghai Surprise is also badly made, where Swept Away is average, yet inconsistent. Her voice projection in Swept Away is terrible. In fact, her determination to control her voice as an actress (so as not to sound shrill?) has always been her biggest handicap in my opinion. It was at its worst in Dick Tracy, in which she decided to play several characters in one scene alone (when she meets up with Dick and encounters the little boy 🙄), with oddly inconsistent delivery of her lines. With hindsight, aside from Desperately Seeking Susan and Dangerous Game, I think Body of Evidence and Who’s That Girl are actually her best fictional filmic performances, something the critics would have laughed at thirty years ago, but might be inclined to agree with today. I think she was almost always too self-conscious as an actress, which is why SA was her last true film role. She knew it herself. She couldn’t seem to move past her own persona. I can understand why as in many ways she’s the greatest performance artist of all time! She has always been in character, which must have been confusing and exhausting as such an exposed public figure. I wish she would be chosen to play an insanely over the top role directed by a conceptual team like The Daniels. It would be such a dream for her to return to the cinema with something truly grandiose and mind-bending. I’m sure she’s been approached by so many unknown or new directors over the years. I’m not sure what has stopped her…it can’t be the fear of being ridiculed. Surely she’s over that? Vanity? 🤷🏻♂️ Such a wasted opportunity after so many years of making it a priority. Her abandoning film has always seemed like the most un-Madonna thing she’s ever done.
- nito84bcn, Honey Little, Voguerista and 3 others
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I’d also question if they aren’t actually sponsoring the tour. That would be an interestingly self-referential full circle indeed, and quite apt!
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8 hours ago, Erotico said:
I am very much perplex about which Madonna you are actually talking about? Because speaking of "safe" themes and music types, I don't see much differences. Madonna's lyrics and songs are about relationships, girlie stuff, love, sex etc as much as Kylie's songs and lyrics are...
madonna latest singles were
4 Minutes3
Give It 2 Me
Miles Away
Celebration
Revolver
Give Me All Your Luvin'
Girl Gone Wild
Turn Up the Radio
Living for Love
Ghosttown
Bitch I'm Madonna
Medelin
And there's much safety such as in any other pop star in the planet in those songs... the main difference in terms of relevance is certainly the fact that Madonna's market includes the US, a market that Kylie basically never really conquered, if not just in a couple of occasions throughout her career, just to be realistic.
Sorry to have perplexed you. Let me clarify. No. Madonna’s songs and her message are not majoritarily about these things. Also, Madonna cannot be separated from her persona for the majority of listeners, and so her songs can be heard and interpreted from a more personal angle as a result. She has consistently tried to introduce more mature themes into her work, thus some songs being about divorce, some about transcendence, some about thriving beyond societal collapse, some about saving the world, some about the relationship to patriarchal figures and abuse, some are about the loss of a mother, some about resilience, persistence and drive, some about death, some about the metaphysical. I’m perplexed that you didn’t notice this, as some of these themes pertain to the songs you used as examples.
My comment wasn’t an indictment of Kylie Minogue, a singer I enjoy very much and who consistently delivers pop singles of the highest caliber. I think Madonna and Kylie are somewhat contemporary to each other in terms of their career longevity, but the differences in their artistry are quite obvious to me. I won’t describe these differences as they might be taken as derogatory to Ms. Minogue. Suffice to to say that I think Kylie is very safe as a public figure; She is saccharine sweet and never one to ruffle a feather. She’s a good entertainer, but I don’t see her as an artist, which is exactly what I see Madonna as. That’s why I don’t feel Madonna could release pop songs like Tension or Padam and have nearly the same impact as Kylie can with such material. Madonna is a catalyst. She is polarizing. She irks with her opinions, her way of behaving and presenting herself, and her lack of warmth. Kylie is all cuddles and koalas. She sells wine in supermarkets, and house linens. 😂
That’s just my opinion, and I respect yours should you feel differently.
- Donna and WopaelWopael
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Kylie has certainly been making some excellent dance pop confections of late, but she is nothing like Madonna. Her songs are devoid of meaning outside of the same tried and true romanticism and sexualized courtship narrative. I have no problem with that and love this new project, but I think Madonna has never really tried to pander to her public in the way that Kylie has. I think if Madonna tried to make something as accessible and artistically safe as Padam and Tension, it wouldn’t gain any traction at this stage in her career. Kylie comes with absolutely no baggage. She is as safe as they come!
- heikeeduardo and Raio_05
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The Official M new Music SPECULATION thread 👑
in News ✖ Discussion
Posted
I really want to believe that there is a Max Martin track ready to drop in two weeks, but it seems like an odd launch tactic to me…A tour touted as a first greatest hits retrospective outing associated with a new song? I hope they have pulled a lot of strings to get it the exposure it deserves if that’s the case! This isn’t 1990 anymore. A new Vogue doesn’t seem attainable, but I’ll be thrilled to be proven wrong and more than pleasantly surprised!