So the Vogue / Love Break court case that Madonna won...

[WoodyR 52]

As you may recall, Madonna and Shep won the case that they had sampled Sal Soul Orchestra's Love Break and stated that it wasn't used.

 

However, now the Vogue multitrack has leaked and it quite clearly is in there. 

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/madonna-music-producer-win-vogue-657052

 

Do we think the case will return to court?

[Queen 572]

As you may recall, Madonna and Shep won the case that they had sampled Sal Soul Orchestra's Love Break and stated that it wasn't used.

 

However, now the Vogue multitrack has leaked and it quite clearly is in there. 

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/madonna-music-producer-win-vogue-657052

 

Do we think the case will return to court?

 

 

Do you mean "Now  has leaked" is "Now You just heard"

 

Do "We think" is "You think"

 

Right?

 

[WoodyR 52]

Er, no I mean that in the multitrack files there is a stem which is a sample of beats and vocals from Love Break. So the fact that they said it wasn't used is a lie. 

[Queen 572]

Er, no I mean that in the multitrack files there is a stem which is a sample of beats and vocals from Love Break. So the fact that they said it wasn't used is a lie. 

 

 

So you keep claim that Judge and attorneys were just did play and listening Vogue CD in the court room and then made a conclusion for Million dollar lawsuit. And we are the only one listening these stems right? 

 

Wow how unfortunate they were! 

 

They would be better to hire you as attorney than professional attorneys! 

 

Then at least you can say to Judge that "I just find out this stem on the internet! I bet that no one knows what is the stem is in this Music industry. so no one even think about to bring this stem to this multi millions dollar lawsuit Until I heard."

 

go for it.

[survivalartist 6,519]

honk honk vogue. honk honk love break.

[WoodyR 52]

Sigh, it's not just some files I found on the internet, is it? We now have all the separate parts to Vogue, from Madonna's backing harmonies, to the individual hi hats. And, included in that, is a repetitive break beat with the chanting of "love break, love break", quite clearly lifted from the track Shep had remixed a few years earlier. 

 

And yes, it is astonishing that the jury didn't ask to listen to the multitrack recording. I can't quite fathom it myself, but it's a fact that it's there. And you can hear it in parts of the 12" mix, too.

[Fighter 28,800]

Queen, can you please learn to discuss in a way that isn't completely childish? I am sure those liking your posts aren't reading correctly! You have been given a warning, for this and other incidents in recent days.

[Fighter 28,800]

Woody, thanks for making an interesting thread

 

I never thought about this, but doesn't one or some of the remixes use the Love Break thing very explicitly? Or am I dreaming.

 

Weird if that wasn't presented as evidence

[luckystar 727]

Wait... They stated Love Break element wasn't used in the song? WTF?

 

It is there.

[ingridcasares 52]

Here's a better article: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/lawsuit-madonnas-vogue-features-romantic-519435

 

"The defendants give several reasons why a judge should throw out the case: One is that VMG Salsoul doesn't possess a copyright registration on "Love Break." Another is that song lacks originality and if there's any copying, it's de minimis.

But the lawsuit is now being attacked on other grounds including that Pettibone as an alleged co-author of "Love Break" can't be sued for infringing his own work. Also, the plaintiff is allegedly barred from bringing a lawsuit over "Vogue" because Shimkin and Frasca have "unclean hands."

[Queen 572]

Here's a better article: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/lawsuit-madonnas-vogue-features-romantic-519435

 

"The defendants give several reasons why a judge should throw out the case: One is that VMG Salsoul doesn't possess a copyright registration on "Love Break." Another is that song lacks originality and if there's any copying, it's de minimis.

But the lawsuit is now being attacked on other grounds including that Pettibone as an alleged co-author of "Love Break" can't be sued for infringing his own work. Also, the plaintiff is allegedly barred from bringing a lawsuit over "Vogue" because Shimkin and Frasca have "unclean hands."

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/lawsuit-madonnas-vogue-features-romantic-519435

 

 

MAY 08, 2013

 9:37am PT by Eriq Gardner

Lawsuit Over Madonna's 'Vogue' Features Romantic Twist

 

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/madonna-music-producer-win-vogue-657052

 

 

NOVEMBER 18, 2013

 12:39pm PT by Eriq Gardner

Madonna and Music Producer Win 'Vogue' Sampling Lawsuit

 

 

Very Interesting 2 years ago article. thank you.

[Queen 572]

Sigh, it's not just some files I found on the internet, is it? We now have all the separate parts to Vogue, from Madonna's backing harmonies, to the individual hi hats. And, included in that, is a repetitive break beat with the chanting of "love break, love break", quite clearly lifted from the track Shep had remixed a few years earlier. 

 

And yes, it is astonishing that the jury didn't ask to listen to the multitrack recording. I can't quite fathom it myself, but it's a fact  that it's there. And you can hear it in parts of the 12" mix, too.

 

 

 

 

sigh. Here we go again and again and again. Ok listen carefully. I will kindly tell you what is your problem.

 

 

This is your problem. You just keep assuming and insist your fantasy as a fact. 

Your fantasy which is Judge and attorneys probably did not asking and did not listen this multi tracks, right?

But there is one problem which is They are NOT Child and Amateur like you. They are Professional.

 

Do you seriously think that these professional lawyers just did play "Vogue CD" in the court room and make a conclusion for Multi Millions dollar lawsuit? Seriously?

This is Millions dollar lawsuit. And Do you seriously Do not think that they did already check everything and make a conclusion that the fact is Madonna win for this stupid lawsuit?

 

Then Think about this.

If you're the plaintiff which musician so already well know about what is stem is and you're the adult and professional attorney for well know about Music copyright then you will just let judge to listening just Vogue CD and make a conclusion for a multi millions dollar lawsuit?

of course you won't right? Even amateur like you won't let that kind of situation happen. But Now you keep insist again again and again that these adult and professional lawyers did that.

 

 

The Only one Real fact is Judge and attorneys did already check the everything and make a conclusion at 2 years ago.

That is the only one real A FACT. Thank you.

 

I said again. if you really think that your little fantasy is real which Judge and attorneys just did play and listening Vogue CD and make conclusion for this multi millions dollar lawsuit then go for it.

Go contact them. Good Luck with it. LOL  Seriously.

 

You just find this stem on the internet few day ago then you make a conclusion that probably nobody know about this stem's existence until you find out on the internet. that's the your problem.

 

Well that's it. if this SM do not understand this again then that is this SM's problem. I will not respond again to this SM.

 

 

 

edited by admin to spare our poor eyes

[devilpray 2,387]

dude you're taking this waaaaaay too seriously 

[Fighter 28,800]

You attacked a member the other day, now you act like a complete lunatic in this thread and do it again and worse after you get a warning?

 

Bye Bye! 

[Fighter 28,800]

Sigh, it's not just some files I found on the internet, is it? We now have all the separate parts to Vogue, from Madonna's backing harmonies, to the individual hi hats. And, included in that, is a repetitive break beat with the chanting of "love break, love break", quite clearly lifted from the track Shep had remixed a few years earlier. 

 

And yes, it is astonishing that the jury didn't ask to listen to the multitrack recording. I can't quite fathom it myself, but it's a fact that it's there. And you can hear it in parts of the 12" mix, too.

 

Well the "love break" bits weren't on the original Vogue, so if a multitrack was presented, it most likely didn't include that sample. 

 

The case was about the horns though, and in the end it was ruled that the sample was "insignificant", so I guess that's why they threw it out...

[sidney78a 2,238]

You attacked a member the other day, now you act like a complete lunatic in this thread and do it again and worse after you get a warning?

 

Bye Bye! +1

[WoodyR 52]

I thought this was an interesting thread, but I didn't want to come back and look at it after what Queen was saying, but I see they've now been banned, so we can discuss it like adults.Yes, the case was about the horns - but I'm pretty sure they are the same horns. They sit on a stem on their own in the multitrack so we can't be sure. There is also a track which is a conga beat which loops and you can hear vinyl scratches on it so it's probably been lifted from something. And there's a very heavy breakbeat which goes throughout the whole song (it's what gives Vogue its distinctive style and gets dropped into bits of Deeper and Deeper when she repeats the lines from that song). This might be from Love Break. I'm not sure.

 

Anyway... what's clear to me is that there is some lying that's gone one. 

[me1981 1,361]

I thought this was an interesting thread, but I didn't want to come back and look at it after what Queen was saying, but I see they've now been banned, so we can discuss it like adults.Yes, the case was about the horns - but I'm pretty sure they are the same horns. They sit on a stem on their own in the multitrack so we can't be sure. There is also a track which is a conga beat which loops and you can hear vinyl scratches on it so it's probably been lifted from something. And there's a very heavy breakbeat which goes throughout the whole song (it's what gives Vogue its distinctive style and gets dropped into bits of Deeper and Deeper when she repeats the lines from that song). This might be from Love Break. I'm not sure.

 

Anyway... what's clear to me is that there is some lying that's gone one. 

 

But wasn't the point not whether it was used but that it was ruled insignificant or so minor it wasn't worthy of a law suit. I am not sure what you are saying exactly. Who lied? The defenses case suggested it be thrown out for this reason and that's what the court ruled, the sample was insignificant.

 

The article you linked clearly states that the sample was deemed to be such a small buried part of the song that no audience would connect the two and so there is no case. If it took new technology to find this, then what audience would even be aware of the use of such things 25 years ago or even today. How were Madonna/Shep gaining from the use of the sample when no one could hear it, not even the plaintiffs without new technology 25 years later.

 

Can you explain your position better, as I find what you are saying unclear. You also state there is a back beat that may or may not be part of Love Break, again what is your point? I know I probably sound rude and I don't mean to, but your points are not clear to me at all.

[ingridcasares 52]

"Queen's been slain"  :mama006:

[missberic 774]

The company that started the lawsuit stated they were only able to identify the sample through new technology, so maybe they did have access to some sort of stems (though considering how present and audible the horns are, maybe the technology they were talking about were headphones, I don't know). And although Shep Pettibone worked as a producer in Love Break, apparently his contract didn't give him ownership on the rights to the work.

 

They were basically implying that the horn was invented during the production of Love Break #snore

So the court said that even if the Horn Hit is used in Vogue, it "is not sufficiently original to merit copyright protection."

 

Anyway, this is how the rulling went down:

 

[NowRadiate 3,331]

Sal Soul apparently "borrowed" the horns from a funk brothers/supremes track (love is like an itchin' on my heart), hence not original?

[RebelHeartbreak 407]

Shep stated somewhere (not sure where, so I don't have a link... Billboard maybe? ) that he owned the music rights when he was remixing the original love break in the early 80's, but that the element used in Vogue were original synths based off the Love Break track, not samples. Since he owns the music rights, it's not only a meritless case, it's not even an accurate accusation because it wasn't a plagiarism case.