She never actually sang American Life

[50ft Queenie 2,787]

1 hour ago, Blue Jean said:

 

A lot of people also are convinced Michael Jackson’s Heal the World says “make a better place fuck you and fuck me” because one of kids in the choir supposedly sang that as a prank. When words aren’t pronounced clearly it is difficult to prove either way.

 

I could see a kid in a choir yelling out "Fuck you and fuck me" in a Michael Jackson song. All we are missing is the "Hee Hee" response.

[Ian 2,268]

11 minutes ago, The Grey Pilgrim said:

I could see a kid in a choir yelling out "Fuck you and fuck me" in a Michael Jackson song. All we are missing is the "Hee Hee" response.

and shamone!

[Redha DBL 7,381]

The fact that the song is called "American life" is not a proof she sings Life and not Lie ! just the opposite for me, it's way more interesting to call the track American Life and sing about the american Lie. Now about the lyrics printed in the booklet that wouldn't be the first time there are mistakes, especially that subtle play on words on lie and leave. Now about the backing vocals i do not agree she sings Life. The Lie is even more obvious in the backing vocals. Even her lips clearly says LIE in the flag video. That Lie and Leave 100% for me. 

[MaDöner Kebab 6,885]

12 hours ago, TonyMontana said:

We do not get the same message at all then, cause to me she's not LIVING the american LIFE, she's LEAVING the american LIE. The second meaning is much more Madonna to me, the first one is way too obvious. Madonna loves double meaning and play on words and she's a genius in using it.

 

12 hours ago, Prayer said:

"American Lie, I leave the American Dream" would fit perfectly with her state of mind then (remember it was peak Britishdonna) and the rest of the album, actually.

I don't know. We discussed it in the other thread about it and there's no way to truly know, in the cappella the chorus parts are chopped by Mirwais and sounds like "lie" but in the backing vocals she sings "life" clearly. And then, in the live performances she sings sometimes "lie" and others "life".

So that's it. It's "American Life" but she plays with the double entendre, I guess. Personally, I like to think she plays with the "life"/"lie" concept, it adds more depth to the song.

The LEAVE is even more stupid because in English LEAVE and LIVE have different vowel pronunciations. She does not use a long " i " sound and that is even more clearly audible than the f sound in American Life. Fricatives used at the end of a sentence tend to be softened. Hard or sharp consonants at the end of a word are usually a trait among non-native speakers like Germans for example.

Oh American life
/oʊ əˈmɛrəkən laɪf/

I live the American dream
/aɪ lɪv ði əˈmɛrəkən drim/

VS.

Oh American life
/oʊ əˈmɛrəkən laɪ/

I leave the American dream
/aɪ liv ði əˈmɛrəkən drim/

The i - sound of "leave" and "live" are significantly different in sound and length.

https://tophonetics.com

Aside from that, no native speaker of the English language would talk about "leaving" a dream, not even in the context of a song. You would say "wake up from a dream" (like M does a lot in her songs...especially if it's a fuzzy dream lol). You could also say "leave this dream behind". But neither is the case her. 

I guess it's a matter of being a native speaker or not. I study English for Educational purposes at the university and I would say I have quite a trained ear. I have a C1 speaking level (advanced). I think the majority of people arguing against this theory are also native speakers, so I would trust their ears more than those of people who do not have English as their mother tongue.

8 hours ago, Blue Jean said:

A lot of people also are convinced Michael Jackson’s Heal the World says “make a better place fuck you and fuck me” because one of kids in the choir supposedly sang that as a prank. When words aren’t pronounced clearly it is difficult to prove either way.

3 hours ago, TonyMontana said:

The fact that the song is called "American life" is not a proof she sings Life and not Lie ! just the opposite for me, it's way more interesting to call the track American Life and sing about the american Lie. Now about the lyrics printed in the booklet that wouldn't be the first time there are mistakes, especially that subtle play on words on lie and leave. Now about the backing vocals i do not agree she sings Life. The Lie is even more obvious in the backing vocals. Even her lips clearly says LIE in the flag video. That Lie and Leave 100% for me. 

Well, you are entitled to stay LIVING that LIE. 

It's your choice to believe that but most people will probably stick to the lyrics and English phonetics.

[Prayer 14,426]

13 minutes ago, MPowered said:

The LEAVE is even more stupid because in English LEAVE and LIVE have different vowel pronunciations. She does not use a long " i " sound and that is even more clearly audible than the f sound in American Life. Fricatives used at the end of a sentence tend to be softened. Hard or sharp consonants at the end of a word are usually a trait among non-native speakers like Germans for example.

Oh American life
/oʊ əˈmɛrəkən laɪf/

I live the American dream
/aɪ lɪv ði əˈmɛrəkən drim/

VS.

Oh American life
/oʊ əˈmɛrəkən laɪ/

I leave the American dream
/aɪ liv ði əˈmɛrəkən drim/

The i - sound of "leave" and "live" are significantly different in sound and length.

https://tophonetics.com

Aside from that, no native speaker of the English language would talk about "leaving" a dream, not even in the context of a song. You would say "wake up from a dream" (like M does a lot in her songs...especially if it's a fuzzy dream lol). You could also say "leave this dream behind". But neither is the case her. 

I guess it's a matter of being a native speaker or not. I study English for Educational purposes at the university and I would say I have quite a trained ear. I have a C1 speaking level (advanced). I think the majority of people arguing against this theory are also native speakers, so I would trust their ears more than those of people who do not have English as their mother tongue.

Relax a little, no one's trying to prove anything here or get a Madonna award for Best Discovery. Plus no one really cares that much about it, don't you think?

If you're not a native speaker either then maybe you should LEAVE the master class to those who are, anyway? 

[Aiwa08 16,223]

English is not my first language, so many times I hear wrong words in songs. In "You'll See", I always heard this nosense:

I have truth on my side
You only have a shit
You'll see, somehow, someday

I'm not joking. 

[Redha DBL 7,381]

14 minutes ago, MPowered said:

 

The LEAVE is even more stupid because in English LEAVE and LIVE have different vowel pronunciations. She does not use a long " i " sound and that is even more clearly audible than the f sound in American Life. Fricatives used at the end of a sentence tend to be softened. Hard or sharp consonants at the end of a word are usually a trait among non-native speakers like Germans for example.

Oh American life
/oʊ əˈmɛrəkən laɪf/

I live the American dream
/aɪ lɪv ði əˈmɛrəkən drim/

VS.

Oh American life
/oʊ əˈmɛrəkən laɪ/

I leave the American dream
/aɪ liv ði əˈmɛrəkən drim/

The i - sound of "leave" and "live" are significantly different in sound and length.

https://tophonetics.com

Aside from that, no native speaker of the English language would talk about "leaving" a dream, not even in the context of a song. You would say "wake up from a dream" (like M does a lot in her songs...especially if it's a fuzzy dream lol). You could also say "leave this dream behind". But neither is the case her. 

I guess it's a matter of being a native speaker or not. I study English for Educational purposes at the university and I would say I have quite a trained ear. I have a C1 speaking level (advanced). I think the majority of people arguing against this theory are also native speakers, so I would trust their ears more than those of people who do not have English as their mother tongue.

Well, you are entitled to stay LIVING that LIE. 

It's your choice to believe that but most people will probably stick to the lyrics and English phonetics.

Well several native english speakers on Pop Justice and here also say she says Lie so...

[MaDöner Kebab 6,885]

1 minute ago, Prayer said:

Relax a little, no one's trying to prove anything here or get a Madonna award for Best Discovery. Plus no one really cares that much about it, don't you think?

If you're not a native speaker either then you should LEAVE the master class to those who are, maybe? 

I am not a native speaker, true but English is my major subject at university and I study it to become a teacher. I have to take three modules of Linguistics (2 lectures and 4 seminars), along with 4 additional seminars of Language practice (all taught by native speakers). Additionally, I have lived in the US for quite some time and went to high school there. I have learned about different variations of English within the United States and the British Isles. Lastly, I have taken at east two TOEFL tests that have determined that I have a C1 level (close to to native).

Not to sound arrogant but I am definitely more advanced than some people here who claim she is singing something that she most likely isn't and who start some kind of odd conspiracy theories. This is how fake news and false informations gets spread. I know this is not a serious matter, but we are having discussion here and I have provided evidence to back my claim and I have experience.

[Roy 7,613]

9 minutes ago, Aiwa08 said:

English is not my first language, so many times I hear wrong words in songs. In "You'll See", I always heard this nosense:

I have truth on my side
You only have a shit
You'll see, somehow, someday

I'm not joking. 

Time go spice

So slowly

[MaDöner Kebab 6,885]

12 minutes ago, TonyMontana said:

Well several native english speakers on Pop Justice and here also say she says Lie so...

Skip to 4:08. The F-sound is clearly audible.

Starting at 5:56 you hear the chorus and yes, the final consonant is chopped off but not just in the word "life". Even the M in "dream" has been chopped off which supports the theory that it's simply Mirwais doing the chopping and forgetting to leave the final consonants intact.

7:25 F in in "life" also audible as well as the short I in "live".

[Prayer 14,426]

Just now, MPowered said:

I am not a native speaker, true but English is my major subject at university and I study it to become a teacher. I have to take three modules of Linguistics (2 lectures and 4 seminars), along with 4 additional seminars of Language practice (all taught by native speakers). Additionally, I have lived in the US for quite some time and went to high school there. I have learned about different variations of English within the United States and the British Isles. Lastly, I have taken at east two TOEFL tests that have determined that I have a C1 level (close to to native).

Not to sound arrogant but I am definitely more advanced than some people here who claim she is singing something that she most likely isn't and who start some kind of odd conspiracy theories. This is how fake news and false informations gets spread. I know this is not a serious matter, but we are having discussion here and I have provided evidence to back my claim and I have experience.

Well actually I have a C1 level too, but I didn't bring that out cause we're not here to compare resumes and also, I don't want to be rude but I suspect no one cares. About yours or mine.

I appreciate your effort, anyway. Not trying to fight. Peace 

In true "American Life" single style, of course.

[Roy 7,613]

Intentional or not, it's actually pretty cool to think of it. As what @TonyMontana said, she likes her double entendres like how she likes her champagne rose: a lot. :D

[MaDöner Kebab 6,885]

Just now, Roy said:

Intentional or not, it's actually pretty cool to think of it. As what @TonyMontana said, she likes her double entendres like how she likes her champagne rose: a lot. :D

Every conspiracy theory has its intriguing aspects but I really think that "Rain" being a song about receiving a facial was more convincing than this one. 

[Roy 7,613]

15 minutes ago, MPowered said:

Every conspiracy theory has its intriguing aspects but I really think that "Rain" being a song about receiving a facial was more convincing than this one. 

Again, double entendres. 

Even Like a Prayer has one. :D

[mikenmark 422]

1 hour ago, MPowered said:

Every conspiracy theory has its intriguing aspects but I really think that "Rain" being a song about receiving a facial was more convincing than this one. 

Wait, what? She's not? What else could it mean? 😜

[Fabiolous 5,499]

This theory is so stupid

[EgoRod 5,480]

2 hours ago, TonyMontana said:

Well several native english speakers on Pop Justice and here also say she says Lie so...

"This is what I think and if you think is stupid give me facts that make me think otherwise!"

-FACTS-

"I Don't care about your facts this is what I think"

 

Argumentum ad populum:

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument which is based on claiming a truth or affirming something is good because the majority thinks so.

[Redha DBL 7,381]

Anyway, there are people who believe she says Lie and Leave and people who believe she says Life and Live, and at the moment we have no way to affirm who is wrong and who is right, maybe one day someone will ask the question directly to Madonna and the case will be solve, until then no one is wrong or right. Calling someone stupid or moron in this case is really not appropriate. 

[PanditaRulez 16,069]

3 hours ago, Aiwa08 said:

English is not my first language, so many times I hear wrong words in songs. In "You'll See", I always heard this nosense:

I have truth on my side
You only have a shit
You'll see, somehow, someday

I'm not joking. 

When I hear the American Life rap I hear: "Aquí tiene su elote 🌽" instead of "I'm drinking a soy latte"... 

A Spanish speaker drama with the English... 😅

[MaDöner Kebab 6,885]

27 minutes ago, TonyMontana said:

Anyway, there are people who believe she says Lie and Leave and people who believe she says Life and Live, and at the moment we have no way to affirm who is wrong and who is right, maybe one day someone will ask the question directly to Madonna and the case will be solve, until then no one is wrong or right. Calling someone stupid or moron in this case is really not appropriate. 

Except, we do know. It’s just that you choose to be oblivious to the facts presented to you.

Funnily enough, this is exactly how people who believe in conspiracy theories act. 🙈 Santa Claus, PizzaGate, Madonna taking adrenochrome (taken from the tears of abused children) are all conspiracy theories that have been debunked. Unfortunately, people who firmly believe that these things exist will not change their mind about it. Just because a few people believe in it, doesn’t mean there’s truth to it.

2:53 you can see her mouth forming the fricative sound at the end of “life”.

[nodoman 324]

1 hour ago, TonyMontana said:

Anyway, there are people who believe she says Lie and Leave and people who believe she says Life and Live, and at the moment we have no way to affirm who is wrong and who is right, maybe one day someone will ask the question directly to Madonna and the case will be solve, until then no one is wrong or right. Calling someone stupid or moron in this case is really not appropriate. 

tony, there are several live performances of this song (even lip-synced ones) where you can see her forming the f-sound. it would be a nice twist, but unless madonna forget her original intention multiple times along the way, it all comes down to mirwais’ editing.

also considering her passion for the album back then, i bet she would have mentioned it in at least one promotional interview.

[Aiwa08 16,223]

4 hours ago, PanditaRulez said:

When I hear the American Life rap I hear: "Aquí tiene su elote 🌽" instead of "I'm drinking a soy latte"... 

A Spanish speaker drama with the English... 😅

At the end of "Where's The Party?" I always hear her screaming in spanish "¡¡¡Oh, que putada!!!" 

[Bjonkers 1,580]

3 hours ago, TonyMontana said:

Anyway, there are people who believe she says Lie and Leave and people who believe she says Life and Live, and at the moment we have no way to affirm who is wrong and who is right, maybe one day someone will ask the question directly to Madonna and the case will be solve, until then no one is wrong or right. Calling someone stupid or moron in this case is really not appropriate. 

We do. The isolated vocal stems which we discussed in the other thread on this subject clearly show that she sings LIFE most of the time. On a number of occasions, the word LIFE is clipped by a production edit, possibly on purpose, possibly accidental. There is no great mystery. Case closed.

[Ziploc 2,566]

For video footage, if she lips the f-sound but doesn't actually say it we would hear it anyway. So it would sound like life even if she said lie. The McGurk Effect, as I've recently learnt

Anyway, people can believe what they want, as long as it's not hurting anyone else. 

Live and let lie I say. 

[Ziploc 2,566]

8 hours ago, MPowered said:

 

8:58 sounds like a game of space invaders 😂