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Just a thought about Mirwais

Redha DBL

By Redha DBL,
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stefo

stefo 6,434

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16 hours ago, Redha DBL said:

This is a thought i had the other day but i didn't share because i felt like it could be kinda insulting towards Mirwais, but after a second thought it's a Madonna forum and we're supposed to discuss her art the most honest way possible so...

I just came to the conclusion that Mirwais is a one hit pony. He is one of the producer she has worked the most with, he has made many and many tracks for her during a long time span and in the end of the day he gave her only one hit : "Music". All the rest was or a flop or a very average success and "Don't tell me" was already a very good existing demo from Joe Henry so it wasn't difficult to make it sound good. If you're a good producer and you make like 30 songs with the most succesful singer on the planet you're expected to make at least 4 or 5 succesfull hits... i do believe, and this is my personnal opinion, that she overestimates his work, maybe due to the fact that she loves working with him cause they gets along very well together when they're in studio. 

I definitely agree, I ADORE Music, I think it's one of her best funk songs and the production has a great part in that, I also like a few of other songs they wrote together (Impressive Instant, Nobody's perfect, Love profusion, Die another day and I don't search I fInd), but the main problem for me is that he just writes very basic melodies, he really doesn't seem to have a proper musical inspiration, he's just about the sound and M is much much more than that. 

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RUADJAI
RUADJAI

Bro.... his sound was unheard of in 2000, especially on the radio. Die Another Day has got to be the strangest Bond song of all time. It's really easy to look back at music from the early 2000's and judge it after we have gone through TWENTY THREE YEARS  of electronic music in mainstream music. His unconventional sounds, manipulation of sounds, stuttering, extreme portamento, vocoder, production minimalism, blend of acoustic and techno.... So many things that have made their way into mainstream

Prayer
Prayer

Overrated by who? His only international commercial success and mainstream work was with Madonna and his only hits were "Music", "Don't Tell Me" and "Die Another Day". No one else in the pop world wanted to work with him (or he refused), while Orbit and Stuart Price worked with everyone and their mothers after having hits with Madonna. If anything, Mirwais has always been underrated.

maddy1111
maddy1111

Well, I love Mirwais and all songs they made together, it's the best period of Madonna for me. But maybe, except Music, they were not even aiming for hits? I dont really think that was a purpose of them working together especially for American Life or later for Madame X, if those songs would have materialized with general public, it would be great, but I think they were absolutely not aiming for huge pop hits breaking charts while working together and both realized that. If so, they would h

PlayPause

PlayPause 2,686

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On 8/15/2023 at 10:25 AM, Redha DBL said:

This is a thought i had the other day but i didn't share because i felt like it could be kinda insulting towards Mirwais, but after a second thought it's a Madonna forum and we're supposed to discuss her art the most honest way possible so...

I just came to the conclusion that Mirwais is a one hit pony. He is one of the producer she has worked the most with, he has made many and many tracks for her during a long time span and in the end of the day he gave her only one hit : "Music". All the rest was or a flop or a very average success and "Don't tell me" was already a very good existing demo from Joe Henry so it wasn't difficult to make it sound good. If you're a good producer and you make like 30 songs with the most succesful singer on the planet you're expected to make at least 4 or 5 succesfull hits... i do believe, and this is my personnal opinion, that she overestimates his work, maybe due to the fact that she loves working with him cause they gets along very well together when they're in studio. 

Pardon my French mais tu es complètement à côté de la plaque.

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Renato Iodice

Renato Iodice 128

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On 8/15/2023 at 10:25 AM, Redha DBL said:

This is a thought i had the other day but i didn't share because i felt like it could be kinda insulting towards Mirwais, but after a second thought it's a Madonna forum and we're supposed to discuss her art the most honest way possible so...

I just came to the conclusion that Mirwais is a one hit pony. He is one of the producer she has worked the most with, he has made many and many tracks for her during a long time span and in the end of the day he gave her only one hit : "Music". All the rest was or a flop or a very average success and "Don't tell me" was already a very good existing demo from Joe Henry so it wasn't difficult to make it sound good. If you're a good producer and you make like 30 songs with the most succesful singer on the planet you're expected to make at least 4 or 5 succesfull hits... i do believe, and this is my personnal opinion, that she overestimates his work, maybe due to the fact that she loves working with him cause they gets along very well together when they're in studio. 

What are you saying? Don't Tell Me was a hit as well as a classic of her discography.

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Would You Like To Try

Would You Like To Try 8,352

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On 8/15/2023 at 2:50 AM, Redha DBL said:

Hmmm i don't agree. You can make a statement while doing a great tune that people will love at the same time. Like a prayer is a perfect example, it has both a political and religious message, Papa Don't preach also has a strong message for example. You just don't go to the studio, being a huge selling act like Madonna, record like 30 songs with a producer at different times of your career and think "Hmm i don't want all those tracks to be successful". While i agree that some tracks are meant to be more personnal and are not made to be successful singles, you cannot say the same for all the tracks they have made and that she has released as singles. She obvioulsy thought those singles would be  succesfull. 

I honestly find those american life songs less likely to get out of my repeat list

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Starchild

Starchild 3,081

Posted
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On 8/15/2023 at 6:25 PM, Redha DBL said:

This is a thought i had the other day but i didn't share because i felt like it could be kinda insulting towards Mirwais, but after a second thought it's a Madonna forum and we're supposed to discuss her art the most honest way possible so...

I just came to the conclusion that Mirwais is a one hit pony. He is one of the producer she has worked the most with, he has made many and many tracks for her during a long time span and in the end of the day he gave her only one hit : "Music". All the rest was or a flop or a very average success and "Don't tell me" was already a very good existing demo from Joe Henry so it wasn't difficult to make it sound good. If you're a good producer and you make like 30 songs with the most succesful singer on the planet you're expected to make at least 4 or 5 succesfull hits... i do believe, and this is my personnal opinion, that she overestimates his work, maybe due to the fact that she loves working with him cause they gets along very well together when they're in studio. 

Sorry but this is a bad take and reveals interesting things about your shallow perspective of what music should be.

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maddy1111

maddy1111 1,605

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4 hours ago, Starchild said:

Sorry but this is a bad take and reveals interesting things about your shallow perspective of what music should be.

Well, I am still waiting if someone explains to me this illogical thinking... Quoting myself (I was asking OP directly) 

"I do not mean it wrong, but unless I cannot catch something here, at this point, I am generally confused why you are mentioning 30 tracks. Most of these tracks were only album tracks, not singles so they did not even had a chance of being "big", how can you keep saying they were not successful or hits, based on what criteria? It doesn't make any logical sense to me. 

Out of the singles, they produced together: Music was literally massive, Don't Tell Me did good as well, Die Another Day was solid hit, too according to charts. 

AL singles flopped, but that's it. I don't know what other circa 20 album tracks has anything to do with your constantly repeating argument that they made 30 songs together. Based on this logic, she made many tracks with Patrick Leonard and a lot of them were not hits as well (Till death do as part, Love makes the world go round etc)" 

I understand everyone might have a different taste, but the whole argument from OP seems to be in a way 'I don't like Mirwais songs so they are not good and he is not hit producer". While Music, Don't Tell Me and Die Another Day say Hi! And the rest of the albums songs are crying in the corner, forgotten by radios 

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Pretender1978

Pretender1978 996

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It seems to dial back to the same old discussion what makes music succesful, for a lot of people that means chart success. And in that light Mirwais hasn't given her many hit singles no. Even though two of the albums he produced were very well received by critics, and apart from the US so was American Life. Charting high with singles is a whole different ballgame, and is depending on many different aspects, the artist's popularity at the time is certainly one of them and we all know why AL bombed, by the time of MX it was clear M will not have mainstream hits anymore (and no, popular is not a hit ;-)) Personally I love her work with Mirwais because it's the most bold and daring and she seems to feel really free. Also if you compare the music tracks to the AL ones, to the few Confessions and to MX, they all have their own very unique sonic world, in that sense I think he is the most diverse producer she has worked with. Unfortunately I agree about the lack of melodies, but that is very much the job of the song's writer not the producer. But as Madonna tends to "write" together with her producer and Mirwais is not one for very dynamic chord progressions she has little to go on. Therefor it is still my dream that M will write a record with Pat Leonard and produce it with Mirwais (and even though I love MX next time we want the dry and emotional vocal production of Music)

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Renato Iodice

Renato Iodice 128

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28 minutes ago, Aiwa08 said:

Is that your level? Laughing at me because I love ‘Love Spent’? Yes, I love it! Any problem?

Thank you for showing that I’m better than you. Goodbye, poor soul. :Madonna005:

No problems at all; it just tells me a lot about your tastes and it confirms me that they don't matter in a discussion about good music, that's all ^_^

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Aiwa08

Aiwa08 16,221

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13 minutes ago, Renato Iodice said:

No problems at all; it just tells me a lot about your tastes and it confirms me that they don't matter in a discussion about good music, that's all ^_^

I’ve said ‘Goodbye’, Mozart. I’m a Madonna fan, so the ‘good music’ discussion is a joke to me after 40 years of hearing people like you against any Madonna song, thinking that their personal opinion is a fact.

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