Singles... if Erotica never received damage control treatment

[GhostOrchid 702]

On 10/3/2023 at 11:01 AM, gst6662000 said:

oh i thought Daniel also remixed BYE BYE BABY too as heard at the VMA

He did actually! Thanks for reminding me.

So yeah that one was probably planned as a 5th single in the US and was ready for radio plays

[chaosmen1984mk 800]

That first single definitely totally changed the opinion that many people had of her. Madonna's change was so radical that it took many by surprise and they ended up distancing themselves from her as her new image did not coincide with the way they had always seen life.

Something similar happened to Christina Aguilera when she released the song Dirrty, which would be something like the Erotica version of the new century. She also wanted to promote women's sexual freedom but many did not understand the message and ended up stoning her with their criticism. Stripped was a wonderful album but like the Erotica album it ended up overshadowed by scandal.

Inevitable side effects when artists decide to put aside their successful careers in favor of changing the social reality of minorities, such as in this case the sexual freedom of women.

[Markdonna 692]

On 10/7/2023 at 10:26 PM, Drownedboy said:

And let´s fantasise, imagine Erotica was not ever made. and that she recorded a regular pop album a la True Blue in 1992, only that with more 90 vibes. What do you think about? Would she be here as an artist today? 

Ohhhh, she’d still be here.  But that True Blue volume 2 album would have been pretty damn dull.  EROTICA was such a huge sign post of her career.  To hear anybody say it was “boring” is — frankly — really pretty darn bizarre.  I dunno… maybe you just weren’t there in 1992,  But trust me… it was anything but boring…. EROTICA was unbelievably bold.  Revolutionary.  And so of course it has been copied by pretty much everybody in the industry.

[Lucky90210 741]

Erotica singles: How it should have went IMO.

Deeper and Deeper

Erotica

Rain

Thief of Hearts

Bad Girl

[Jamesroeni 96]

I don't think Erotica was subjected to 'damage control' ...  The only time I think in Madonna's whole career I think you could feel an element of damage control was the Reinvention Tour. It was a total surprise when she pulled out Vogue etc. At the time even though you wished for those songs to be performed you some how never believed she would play them again.  She played her Ace card... Like she will do on Saturday. 

[Drownedboy 1,677]

13 hours ago, Markdonna said:

Ohhhh, she’d still be here.  But that True Blue volume 2 album would have been pretty damn dull.  EROTICA was such a huge sign post of her career.  To hear anybody say it was “boring” is — frankly — really pretty darn bizarre.  I dunno… maybe you just weren’t there in 1992,  But trust me… it was anything but boring…. EROTICA was unbelievably bold.  Revolutionary.  And so of course it has been copied by pretty much everybody in the industry.

to me erotica is overall melodically quite poor but I never said it was boring, did I said that?

[Donna 16,460]

5 hours ago, Jamesroeni said:

I don't think Erotica was subjected to 'damage control' ...  The only time I think in Madonna's whole career I think you could feel an element of damage control was the Reinvention Tour. It was a total surprise when she pulled out Vogue etc. At the time even though you wished for those songs to be performed you some how never believed she would play them again.  She played her Ace card... Like she will do on Saturday. 

I don't really see her performing Vogue on RIT as "damage control".  The whole tour may have been promoted and to include some huge hits to soften her image after American Life, but she still performed a good number of her songs from American Life like any other tour she's done when touring off her recent release.  I never felt she was trying to avoid performing Vogue at that point in her career either.  But we have to be realistic here. Madonna's mainstream success plays a huge role in her popularity, so no matter how tired she gets of her older songs, she knows those are the songs that most people want to hear.  But again, Re-Invention still featured a good dose of her American Life album.  But it definitely was a tour, that she was able to balance out the AL songs with a lot of other previous big hits as well.

[Sultrysully 2,866]

3 hours ago, Drownedboy said:

to me erotica is overall melodically quite poor but I never said it was boring, did I said that?

You must have bought a different record that I did.  It was and is beautiful.  

[Drownedboy 1,677]

8 hours ago, Sultrysully said:

You must have bought a different record that I did.  It was and is beautiful.  

I respect and love that you enjoy it, but her stronger albums melodically are those made with Pat Leonard and some others. Shep Pettibone or Mirwais can be genius on production, sound, but melodically they are not so strong as the man who wrote Papa don´t preach, Live to tell, Frozen, LAP and other gems.

 

Erotica is a strong album on many levels, but half of the album she is rapping and speaking, same as Madame x, that´s why  I don´t like those albums so much, cause I don´t enjoy their messages too specially. Would you tell me that a Ballad like in this life is so strong melodically as say, The power of goodbye?

[Markdonna 692]

No, but I would argue that Bad Girl is just as strong if not more so. Same with Rain and Deeper and Deeper.

[Drownedboy 1,677]

7 minutes ago, Markdonna said:

No, but I would argue that Bad Girl is just as strong if not more so. Same with Rain and Deeper and Deeper.

Mmmm ok, I wouldn´t. But you know, that´s the great aspect about art and tastes, both opinions I think are valid.

[Jamesroeni 96]

11 hours ago, McDonna said:

I don't really see her performing Vogue on RIT as "damage control".  The whole tour may have been promoted and to include some huge hits to soften her image after American Life, but she still performed a good number of her songs from American Life like any other tour she's done when touring off her recent release.  I never felt she was trying to avoid performing Vogue at that point in her career either.  But we have to be realistic here. Madonna's mainstream success plays a huge role in her popularity, so no matter how tired she gets of her older songs, she knows those are the songs that most people want to hear.  But again, Re-Invention still featured a good dose of her American Life album.  But it definitely was a tour, that she was able to balance out the AL songs with a lot of other previous big hits as well.

I completely agree with you. It was incredible at the time. She was acknowledging older songs in the AL promo tours too, so I don't think it was a rescue stratergy for AL. Reinvention was just the first time she fully embraced her body of work in my opinion and it was amazing as a fan.  I think artisically it was probably a natural progression following the video montages that were used in Music performances and the reaction at DWT to holiday.  I disagree with the phrase damage control as her career is always changing and reflecting. My point here was that Erotica was not subjected to 'damage control'. If anything the follow up single I'll Remember and the Bedtime Stories was a reaction to Erotica. Not the single choices from Erotica nor the tour content of Girlie Show. 

[kesiak 3,036]

5 hours ago, Drownedboy said:

I respect and love that you enjoy it, but her stronger albums melodically are those made with Pat Leonard and some others. Shep Pettibone or Mirwais can be genius on production, sound, but melodically they are not so strong as the man who wrote Papa don´t preach, Live to tell, Frozen, LAP and other gems.

Erotica is a strong album on many levels, but half of the album she is rapping and speaking, same as Madame x, that´s why  I don´t like those albums so much, cause I don´t enjoy their messages too specially. Would you tell me that a Ballad like in this life is so strong melodically as say, The power of goodbye?

Leonard didn't write Papa Don't Preach, he wasn't even a producer on it. Also, Madonna is responsible for melodies, according to various collaborators of her over the years, so blame here for that bit. It's a creative choice on her part, Pettibone mentions in his diaries that M very clearly wasn't interested in doing Vouge #2. But you know, it's totally fine not to enjoy that side of her. To me personally, Erotica is peerless.  

[Drownedboy 1,677]

1 hour ago, kesiak said:

Leonard didn't write Papa Don't Preach, he wasn't even a producer on it. Also, Madonna is responsible for melodies, according to various collaborators of her over the years, so blame here for that bit. It's a creative choice on her part, Pettibone mentions in his diaries that M very clearly wasn't interested in doing Vouge #2. But you know, it's totally fine not to enjoy that side of her. To me personally, Erotica is peerless.  

So Pat Leonard is not a magical creator of melodies and phenomenal musician? Some of Madonna´s best and most legendary work was with him, like it or not, and Madame x or Erotica are not among her most beloved and iconic material, if you go outside her fans zone. Erotica might me peerless, but melodically it pales next to another phenomenal records of hers. 

But yes, melodically I´m sure she is able of create good music too. I was not saying the oposite.

Oh, also, when I spoke about her best songs I never mentioned Vogue, cause it´s an amazing dance pop song, brilliantly produced and sung but melodically it is not frozen either, you know.

[Markdonna 692]

This may come as a real shock but many people can and will have different opinions than you. ;)

[kesiak 3,036]

47 minutes ago, Drownedboy said:

So Pat Leonard is not a magical creator of melodies and phenomenal musician?

Nobody's saying that. But if you check interviews with him, Pettibone, Orbit, etc, they all talk about Madonna coming up the melodies (Leonard would come up with basic chord progressions for example, over which M would sing a melody line that she came up with). I also don't get this obsession with melody - there's plenty of amazing music out there that's not particularly melodic (ie. jazz, hip hop). There's time and place for everything .

[Drownedboy 1,677]

4 hours ago, Markdonna said:

This may come as a real shock but many people can and will have different opinions than you. ;)

Stupid comment really if you read my messages and what I said.

[Markdonna 692]

Well, you can’t seem to shut up about Patrick Leonard and dismiss anybody who argues that latter songs are just as good. 

[Drownedboy 1,677]

1 hour ago, Markdonna said:

Well, you can’t seem to shut up about Patrick Leonard and dismiss anybody who argues that latter songs are just as good. 

I dont think you can Tell here anybody to shut up and i dont dismiss anybody. Stop the hate and the lies, thank you .

[Markdonna 692]

Oh, grow up already.  What are you?  12?  

PS — ALL of your posts are hilariously dismissive, by the way.

[Mden 2,252]

Erotica is in my top six albums of all time, along with Madame X, Rebel Heart, Music, American Life, and Bedtime Stories. All 10s. The album that I have the least connection to is Confessions. I tried and tried and tried to get into it to no avail. There’s definitely something wrong with me, cause it’s universally liked. 

[Markdonna 692]

How old are you?  Maybe CONFESSIONS left you cold as you are a little too young to have much of a connection with the 1970s and 1980s music it is such a homage to…?

[Mden 2,252]

1 minute ago, Markdonna said:

How old are you?  Maybe CONFESSIONS left you cold as you are a little too young to have much of a connection with the 1970s and 1980s music it is such a homage to…?

46    I have no excuse.

[Markdonna 692]

Nope. You sure don’t!  ;)

[Drownedboy 1,677]

2 hours ago, Markdonna said:

Oh, grow up already.  What are you?  12?  

PS — ALL of your posts are hilariously dismissive, by the way.

Oh, oks, so you´re one of those trolls here and there in this board. I´ll block you. Have a nice day.