Is Sex Book Art or Trash?

[A. A. Aardvark 4,842]

2 hours ago, Joseebus said:

Art. It's just the shame the way it was bound is so trash.

You've never bought a Tom of Finland book then.

[Joseebus 2,552]

23 minutes ago, A. A. Aardvark said:

You've never bought a Tom of Finland book then.

Oh no, are they really bad? Haha. Big fan of the art, though!

[Drownedboy 1,676]

I think till that point she had have major success with every project and even if each step was more controversial than the previous one, it didn´t mattered, cause she was at her peak. Erotica, with sex and that movie was a step even further, and well, for the first time, it did not worked out as she expected and she lost her Imperial phase for a while. 

To me Sex and the whole erotica era is somehow cold and calculated, but, hey if that was the step she needed to take, so be it. On the other hand, some pictures are amazingly beautiful, top notch, and artistic, so, I don´t know about it LOL.

[Donna 16,443]

13 hours ago, Drownedboy said:

I think till that point she had have major success with every project and even if each step was more controversial than the previous one, it didn´t mattered, cause she was at her peak. Erotica, with sex and that movie was a step even further, and well, for the first time, it did not worked out as she expected and she lost her Imperial phase for a while. 

To me Sex and the whole erotica era is somehow cold and calculated, but, hey if that was the step she needed to take, so be it. On the other hand, some pictures are amazingly beautiful, top notch, and artistic, so, I don´t know about it LOL.

I agree it seemed to get a bit dark in this era.  I remember how much of the public was just tired of her at this point.  Some felt she was pushing the "sex" a bit too far.  But reflecting back, I think it's exactly what she had to do.  It could have been far worse.  I know it was a few years later, but Alan Parker could have just completely ignored her pleas to take on the Evita part.  This era gave her a chance to transition into a totally new Madonna, which happened between Evita, motherhood and ROL. 

I know that I struggled enjoying Erotica the album and Sex book, but like mentioned, there are a lot of beautiful images coming from the book.  The album really showed off a more sophisticated and artistic way in her lyrics.  The singles and videos were great, especially Deeper & Deeper, Rain and Bad Girl. 

[Drownedboy 1,676]

13 minutes ago, McDonna said:

I agree it seemed to get a bit dark in this era.  I remember how much of the public was just tired of her at this point.  Some felt she was pushing the "sex" a bit too far.  But reflecting back, I think it's exactly what she had to do.  It could have been far worse.  I know it was a few years later, but Alan Parker could have just completely ignored her pleas to take on the Evita part.  This era gave her a chance to transition into a totally new Madonna, which happened between Evita, motherhood and ROL. 

I know that I struggled enjoying Erotica the album and Sex book, but like mentioned, there are a lot of beautiful images coming from the book.  The album really showed off a more sophisticated and artistic way in her lyrics.  The singles and videos were great, especially Deeper & Deeper, Rain and Bad Girl. 

Fantastic post.

[PlayPause 2,684]

Oh please, is this Fox News?

[Donna 16,443]

45 minutes ago, PlayPause said:

Oh please, is this Fox News?

Hi.  But what do you mean by this? 

[Blue Jean 15,254]

On 8/15/2023 at 5:44 PM, Drownedboy said:

I think till that point she had have major success with every project and even if each step was more controversial than the previous one, it didn´t mattered, cause she was at her peak. Erotica, with sex and that movie was a step even further, and well, for the first time, it did not worked out as she expected and she lost her Imperial phase for a while. 

To me Sex and the whole erotica era is somehow cold and calculated, but, hey if that was the step she needed to take, so be it. On the other hand, some pictures are amazingly beautiful, top notch, and artistic, so, I don´t know about it LOL.

I think going “too far” was part of Madonna’s artistic journey. She was fixated on pushing peoples buttons, to stoke the fire of conservatives in support of what she really believed in. Which was defending minorities and breaking down stereotypes and fear around sex/hiv. The people she was inspired by all walked a similar path. It was an inevitable part of her artistic journey. If labels/execs had of successfully talked her out of it I think it would have come out in other forms. She had to go too far to push her own limits and get “burnt.” Otherwise she’d have remained unfulfilled as an artist. While the book is in many ways a cut and paste of different influences she brought those concepts to a mainstream platform in a way no one else ever would have. It was hugely influential to the queer community and to women. (For better or worse , that’s subjective.) This is why for me it’s her greatest work. Or certainly her most important. But really, her body of work that came before it is all a part of the same journey.

[Blue Jean 15,254]

3 hours ago, McDonna said:

Hi.  But what do you mean by this? 

Fox News is a conservative news channel that twist facts

[Donna 16,443]

4 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

Fox News is a conservative news channel that twist facts

Oh I know this, but I meant by his reply?  What is it referencing?

[Blue Jean 15,254]

3 hours ago, McDonna said:

Oh I know this, but I meant by his reply?  What is it referencing?

I think he was referring to the entire thread/poll and some of the responses. People saying she shouldn't have done it etc. It's a very conservative viewpoint. Basically insinuating she should have played it safer as an artist and not upset the status quo so she could stay popular and sell more records.

[Donna 16,443]

3 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

I think he was referring to the entire thread/poll and some of the responses. People saying she shouldn't have done it etc. It's a very conservative/right wing viewpoint. Basically insinuating she should have played it safer as an artist so she could stay popular and sell more records.

I kinda figured that is what he was getting at, but I guess I hadn't read too many people here too against it.  Even with the poll, only one person (at the time of this post to you), only one person called it trash. 

But yeah, as if Madonna is the sort of artist to "play things safe".  Even when it seems she doing so, she still manages to do things against the grain.  For instance, the Bedtime Stories album has been noted to be the album to soften her image. I guess in a way it was, but she still was making out with a TV in TAB, and she was still simulating S&M acts in Human Nature.  LOL!   

[Blue Jean 15,254]

3 minutes ago, McDonna said:

I kinda figured that is what he was getting at, but I guess I hadn't read too many people here too against it.  Even with the poll, only one person (at the time of this post to you), only one person called it trash. 

But yeah, as if Madonna is the sort of artist to "play things safe".  Even when it seems she doing so, she still manages to do things against the grain.  For instance, the Bedtime Stories album has been noted to be the album to soften her image. I guess in a way it was, but she still was making out with a TV in TAB, and she was still simulating S&M acts in Human Nature.  LOL!   

That's so true. And holding hands with a woman in Secret. I specifically remember kids at school calling her a lesbian after that video came out.

[Donna 16,443]

14 hours ago, Blue Jean said:

That's so true. And holding hands with a woman in Secret. I specifically remember kids at school calling her a lesbian after that video came out.

Even during ROL era, she was wearing see through outfits, where you can clearly see her tits.  (Mostly photoshoots that I recall).

 

 

 

[Drownedboy 1,676]

I think the problem was not being very sexual, in fact that pictures of hers of ROL era are much more sexy for me than anything of erotica era, where everything is so cold to my taste. The whole erotica era had for me like some bad mood or agresive vibes on it that I think it was the main problem for the general public and well, the press. It´s like she was saying: i´m going to fuck you, you´ll see. Songs like Skin on ROL are super sexual and pictures like these, but the whole era was shiny and positive, and people had that in mind. I don´t know it´s strange. 

 

I really don´t like artistically the whole Erotica era, despite some great songs and amazing videos, and some very funny remarks on the sex book. The rest I think it was too serious, bad mood, cold, s and m and even pretentious for my taste. Am I right winged? I don´t think so, but well, maybe LOL.

[Mden 2,252]

I love the whole Erotica era. Right now though the Woke is the establishment. And it would be good if she challenges it. 
If she could emphasize(in her art)the need for, taking personal responsibility, and not resorting to blaming others for failures in life, it would be much appreciated. The Woke seem to think that identifying as a minority is enough of an accomplishment. What we need now is Conservative Madonna.

[Blue Jean 15,254]

17 minutes ago, Mden said:

If she could emphasize(in her art)the need for taking personal responsibility, and not retorting to blaming others for failures in life, it would be much appreciated. The Woke seem to think that identifying as a minority is enough of an accomplishment.

So basically you want Madonna to incorporate victim blaming into her work? That is never going to happen (thank God.)

[Mden 2,252]

22 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

So basically you want Madonna to incorporate victim blaming into her work?

Nope.

[Blue Jean 15,254]

28 minutes ago, Mden said:

Nope.

Thank goodness.

[PlayPause 2,684]

On 8/17/2023 at 1:21 AM, McDonna said:

Oh I know this, but I meant by his reply?  What is it referencing?

Well I wonder who on this forum thinks this is a serious question : Art or Trash? Are you grooming haters and bigots? What's the point?

[PlayPause 2,684]

On 8/17/2023 at 7:41 AM, Mden said:

I love the whole Erotica era. Right now though the Woke is the establishment. And it would be good if she challenges it. 
If she could emphasize(in her art)the need for, taking personal responsibility, and not resorting to blaming others for failures in life, it would be much appreciated. The Woke seem to think that identifying as a minority is enough of an accomplishment. What we need now is Conservative Madonna.

Are you serious? Has this forum turned into a retirement home of Republican veterans? Get me outta here.

Next thread is going to be "are there too much gay people at Madonna shows" and yall be crying for help.

[mikenmark 422]

On 8/17/2023 at 6:41 AM, Mden said:

I love the whole Erotica era. Right now though the Woke is the establishment. And it would be good if she challenges it. 
If she could emphasize(in her art)the need for, taking personal responsibility, and not resorting to blaming others for failures in life, it would be much appreciated. The Woke seem to think that identifying as a minority is enough of an accomplishment. What we need now is Conservative Madonna.

What do you mean when you say the woke?  And where are "The Woke" the establishment?  

[kesiak 3,036]

On 8/17/2023 at 6:41 AM, Mden said:

I love the whole Erotica era. Right now though the Woke is the establishment. And it would be good if she challenges it. 
If she could emphasize(in her art)the need for, taking personal responsibility, and not resorting to blaming others for failures in life, it would be much appreciated. The Woke seem to think that identifying as a minority is enough of an accomplishment. What we need now is Conservative Madonna.

Uhm, huh? Roe v Wade has been overturned, drag performances are being banished, books are being banned, Florida is teaching kids that slavery actually benefited the slaves, hard worn rights we have taken for granted are being challenged and overturned but the "woke" are the establishment now? On what planet? 

[Mden 2,252]

It’s alright. We disagree.

[Prayer 14,361]

On 8/17/2023 at 5:47 AM, McDonna said:

Even during ROL era, she was wearing see through outfits, where you can clearly see her tits.  (Mostly photoshoots that I recall).

 

 

 

Which shows again how narrative and image control are always the key, with her and everyone else. She was allowed and "forgiven" to put those "naughty" little bits here and there cause in 1998 we were sold she was Mother Earth and suddenly everything she did was gold and she was the coolest mum in the world. It was cool to like her.

In 1992/1993 it was cool to say she was over.

In the end, as she herself has said many times: "none of this is real". It's all an illusion based on many factors.

Of course the "SEX" book is art. Literally. It was part of an exhibition last year.