The Celebration Tour (Spoilers)

[Blue Jean 15,256]

1 hour ago, scion said:

The Celebration Tour was probably my favourite concert I've ever been to (well, except Springsteen) but I'm not going to deny that Tina Turner was the best thing ever to hit a stage. Literally that woman had everything in bucket loads. While Madonna is amazing in concert, Tina was in a league of her own... Somebody completely unmatched.

That's my opinion of course

(And before anyone jumps on me, just no, I've literally said nothing negative about M)...

 

Madonna is also in a league of her own. It's like comparing Freddie Mercury to Michael Jackson. Both brilliant in their own way. But I do not believe Tina had more energy or was in better shape than Madonna at 65. (Which is what haters say to trash Madonna.)

[scion 3,123]

They are indeed very different. I'll always love Tina and not being able to see her in concert is one thing I do regret.

[Salida 494]

I don't like comparing any artists at all, ever. This is art, it's not a sport. I would also like to point out (on the subject of M's form and energy) that she was in coma a few months ago. She said the doctors told her that her recovery might take 8 months. She was on tour 3 months after the coma. So again, please don't underestimate or undervalue her. Generally she's in better shape than most of the performers who are in their 20s and 30s (again, I hate comparing but it seems like it's necessary). I hope she recovers completely and doesn't have any serious health issues in the future. If so, I don't see her coming off of the stage ever. That's her place. Nobody I know cares if and how much she dances. She'll always be the best performer (because that's not a function of her dancing) and we'll always be there.

[Redha DBL 7,361]

When asking ourselves why older females performers like Cher or Tina are not as mocked or criticized the way Madonna is, the key element is that they don't perform sexual choreos on stage, that's the main reason why. People don't feel comfortable watching an ederly woman mimming sex on stage, simple as that. Take off all the suggestive moves from the Celebration tour (The guys in Jockstrap mimming sexual intercourse on her, the pussy rubbing in Papa don't preach etc...) And keep just the nice and lovely performances like Holiday, Don't tell me etc and people will be fine. Simple as that. Madonna wants to make a statement, that if you wanna be sexual after 50 or 60yo you can be, and she knows she will gets shit for it, she's used to it and i will even add that in a way that's her driving force. Controversy, pushing boundaries as always been and will always be her fuel. She's alive and moves forward when she's pushing boudaries.

[Donna 16,488]

58 minutes ago, Redha DBL said:

When asking ourselves why older females performers like Cher or Tina are not as mocked or criticized the way Madonna is, the key element is that they don't perform sexual choreos on stage, that's the main reason why. People don't feel comfortable watching an ederly woman mimming sex on stage, simple as that. Take off all the suggestive moves from the Celebration tour (The guys in Jockstrap mimming sexual intercourse on her, the pussy rubbing in Papa don't preach etc...) And keep just the nice and lovely performances like Holiday, Don't tell me etc and people will be fine. Simple as that. Madonna wants to make a statement, that if you wanna be sexual after 50 or 60yo you can be, and she knows she will gets shit for it, she's used to it and i will even add that in a way that's her driving force. Controversy, pushing boundaries as always been and will always be her fuel. She's alive and moves forward when she's pushing boudaries.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you shared here, but the thing is; people have been mocking her and criticizing her for these same reasons when she was younger too. I think what I would add here to what you posted, is that many people are uncomfortable with seeing a strong woman who is in control, performing overtly sexual choreos that include more than heterosexual behavior.  Madonna doesn't have restraints when it comes to sexuality on stage, and a lot of people are simply uncomfortable with that, even those who are open to different lifestyles beyond heterosexual behavior.

[Robertthenurse 2,919]

1 hour ago, Redha DBL said:

When asking ourselves why older females performers like Cher or Tina are not as mocked or criticized the way Madonna is, the key element is that they don't perform sexual choreos on stage, that's the main reason why. People don't feel comfortable watching an ederly woman mimming sex on stage, simple as that. Take off all the suggestive moves from the Celebration tour (The guys in Jockstrap mimming sexual intercourse on her, the pussy rubbing in Papa don't preach etc...) And keep just the nice and lovely performances like Holiday, Don't tell me etc and people will be fine. Simple as that. Madonna wants to make a statement, that if you wanna be sexual after 50 or 60yo you can be, and she knows she will gets shit for it, she's used to it and i will even add that in a way that's her driving force. Controversy, pushing boundaries as always been and will always be her fuel. She's alive and moves forward when she's pushing boudaries.

But she was criticized way back in the 90s. Now they feel like they have ammunition for it because she is Aged. 
jealousy and envy. It’s literally that simple. 

[Blue Jean 15,256]

50 minutes ago, McDonna said:

I don't necessarily disagree with what you shared here, but the thing is; people have been mocking her and criticizing her for these same reasons when she was younger too. I think what I would add here to what you posted, is that many people are uncomfortable with seeing a strong woman who is in control, performing overtly sexual choreos that include more than heterosexual behavior.  Madonna doesn't have restraints when it comes to sexuality on stage, and a lot of people are simply uncomfortable with that, even those who are open to different lifestyles beyond heterosexual behavior.

Agree with you. Amongst the nasty comments is quite a lot of homophobia.

[Redha DBL 7,361]

1 hour ago, McDonna said:

I don't necessarily disagree with what you shared here, but the thing is; people have been mocking her and criticizing her for these same reasons when she was younger too. I think what I would add here to what you posted, is that many people are uncomfortable with seeing a strong woman who is in control, performing overtly sexual choreos that include more than heterosexual behavior.  Madonna doesn't have restraints when it comes to sexuality on stage, and a lot of people are simply uncomfortable with that, even those who are open to different lifestyles beyond heterosexual behavior.

 

49 minutes ago, Robertthenurse said:

But she was criticized way back in the 90s. Now they feel like they have ammunition for it because she is Aged. 
jealousy and envy. It’s literally that simple. 

Sure she was criticized even when younger but which young celebrity isn't criticized at all ?! She was also the biggest female selling singer when she was younger, she was praised and admired globally, hence why she became the queen of pop. Being sexual on stage when you're 25 and when you're 65 won't resonate the same way, unfairly actually. I'm stating the facts of our society. 

[Donna 16,488]

1 minute ago, Redha DBL said:

 

Sure she was criticized even when younger but which young celebrity isn't criticized at all ?! She was also the biggest female selling singer when she was younger, she was praised and admired globally, hence why she became the queen of pop. Being sexual on stage when you're 25 and when you're 65 won't resonate the same way, unfairly actually. I'm stating the facts of our society. 

Again I don't disagree with anything you shared here.  I just feel that this all boils down to ageism because even you pointed out that people were more accepting of her overtly sexual behavior when she was younger, compared to now.

Yet, as fans I assume we are more sensitive to what is said because we pay more attention to it all.  While it's hard not to, I rather take Madonna's approach and think "who cares?".  She isn't hurting anyone and there will always be people who will hate on her just as much as she will always have people appreciate and enjoy her.

[Blue Jean 15,256]

5 minutes ago, Redha DBL said:

Sure she was criticized even when younger but which young celebrity isn't criticized at all ?! 

Most of them have never been criticized anywhere near as much as Madonna.

In fact, the only singer I can think of who was ever trashed as much as Madonna would be MJ.

[Redha DBL 7,361]

1 minute ago, Blue Jean said:

Most of them have never been criticized anywhere near as much as Madonna.

 

Nothing surprising here. She pushed boudaries. Wether it was about gays, religion, sex... Of course she would get stong reactions, good and bad, by pushing the buttons of such important matters. She had the choice to just put on an elegant dress, sing her lovely song, say thank you goodnight politely shut up her mouth and go back home but she has decided otherwise. She took the road less travelled by.  She used and still use her fame and exposure to make changes about important matters of our society, and so she gets the shit that comes with it. No mystery here. 

[Donna 16,488]

2 minutes ago, Redha DBL said:

Nothing surprising here. She pushed boudaries. Wether it was about gays, religion, sex... Of course she would get stong reactions, good and bad, by pushing the buttons of such important matters. She had the choice to just put on an elegant dress, sing her lovely song, say thank you goodnight politely shut up her mouth and go back home but she has decided otherwise. She took the road less travelled by.  She used and still use her fame and exposure to make changes about important matters of our society, and so she gets the shit that comes with it. No mystery here. 

And I don't believe she would have had the same level of success or be as popular, if she didn't push those boundaries as she did.  It's part of who she is as an entertainer. There's nothing wrong with those who do "put on an elegant dress, sing a lovely song, say thank you goodnight politely shut up their mouth and go back home", but Madonna emerged to stardom based on her being unconventional and speaking her mind. 

The one thing I will say, I do think she has far more respect than she used to.  But of course, we are living in the age of social media and those who are the loudest tend to be the those who just hate on things.

[Blue Jean 15,256]

22 minutes ago, McDonna said:

The one thing I will say, I do think she has far more respect than she used to.  But of course, we are living in the age of social media and those who are the loudest tend to be the those who just hate on things.

The time she had the most respect was 1996 - 2007. Basically the period where she was not overtly sexual.

[Blue Jean 15,256]

I will say it too, a lot of people have a problem with plastic surgery/fillers etc. The Kardashians get a lot of shit too. And remember MJ did as well.

My question is why does Cher always get a free pass? You even see people say she is ageless 

[VogueMusic 678]

19 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

I will say it too, a lot of people have a problem with plastic surgery/fillers etc. The Kardashians get a lot of shit too. And remember MJ did as well.

My question is why does Cher always get a free pass? You even see people say she is ageless 

I ask myself this all the time!

Cher and Dolly always get a pass... and their work done is far more obvious and extreme. And started far earlier.

Then again, they are "national treasures" now. They don't provoke in the way M does, and never did.

 

4 hours ago, Blue Jean said:

Madonna is also in a league of her own. It's like comparing Freddie Mercury to Michael Jackson. Both brilliant in their own way. But I do not believe Tina had more energy or was in better shape than Madonna at 65. (Which is what haters say to trash Madonna.)

I'd say they're about equal (considering their individual styles) with what they did/are doing at their age on stage. Tina worked her ass off on that last tour in 08-09 (like M now), but she said it was a real struggle, and took it's toll on her.

Wish folks could really be more appreciative of how unbelievably hard these women work, still, at that age...and they don't have to.

[Redha DBL 7,361]

18 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

The time she had the most respect was 1996 - 2007. Basically the period where she was not overtly sexual.

This is absolutely spot on. I've always noticed the same thing. 

[Redha DBL 7,361]

24 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

I will say it too, a lot of people have a problem with plastic surgery/fillers etc. The Kardashians get a lot of shit too. And remember MJ did as well.

My question is why does Cher always get a free pass? You even see people say she is ageless 

Once again, totally spot on.

Now about Cher, it's another case. First of all Cher never takes herself seriously, even more as she grew older. Always keepin it cool and funny, even about herself. Second she's never hidden anything about her plastic procedures, always been cool about it and even discussing it.

If you're a celebrity, makes obvious platic procedures but act as if you don't, don't wanna talk about it and makes clear you don't want anyone mentionning it, be sure people will talk and talk about it, and be nasty. Now if you decide to talk about it publicly and be cool with it, even joking about it, people will quickly lose interest in talking about it, that's what Cher did.

[WokeUpInMedellin 1,562]

^ That's true. Big, big part of it.

[Robertthenurse 2,919]

1 hour ago, Redha DBL said:

 

Sure she was criticized even when younger but which young celebrity isn't criticized at all ?! She was also the biggest female selling singer when she was younger, she was praised and admired globally, hence why she became the queen of pop. Being sexual on stage when you're 25 and when you're 65 won't resonate the same way, unfairly actually. I'm stating the facts of our society. 

I’m speaking of the source of the “facts.” Underneath it all people are jealous and envious — and afraid. 

[Redha DBL 7,361]

10 minutes ago, Robertthenurse said:

I’m speaking of the source of the “facts.” Underneath it all people are jealous and envious — and afraid. 

Oh yes, most of hate comes from envy and jealousy.

[Champ 375]

https://www.tiktok.com/@madonna/video/7334199299787476266?lang=en

 

[Donna 16,488]

1 hour ago, Redha DBL said:

Once again, totally spot on.

Now about Cher, it's another case. First of all Cher never takes herself seriously, even more as she grew older. Always keepin it cool and funny, even about herself. Second she's never hidden anything about her plastic procedures, always been cool about it and even discussing it.

If you're a celebrity, makes obvious platic procedures but act as if you don't, don't wanna talk about it and makes clear you don't want anyone mentionning it, be sure people will talk and talk about it, and be nasty. Now if you decide to talk about it publicly and be cool with it, even joking about it, people will quickly lose interest in talking about it, that's what Cher did.

I think people have forgotten in the early to mid 90's, Cher was given a lot of shit and was made fun of regarding the work she's done to her face.  So many people back then, said the same thing they say now of Madonna which is... "she unrecognizable".  So she didn't necessarily get a "free pass".  But again, social media is around these days, so the criticism comes off  ten times worse for Madonna.  Also, while Cher still has work done, she doesn't drastically look different from how she looked when she first had work done. Still, people know Cher nearing 80, know she's had extensive work done.  I agree she doesn't hide it, but I don't think Madonna necessarily pretends she hasn't had work done.  She just doesn't talk about it and I've never heard anyone straight out ask her about it.  I'm sure Madonna has the thought, "it's my business not yours".  She shouldn't feel obligate to talk about it though, and that's what I don't get.  Cher and Dolly may not shy away from talking about it, but the difference is, they've had years to adjust to people speculating about her.  I think if I was to criticize Madonna regarding any work she's done if she just flat out denies she's had any. She hasn't done that, and I do think she'll get to the point she may be more comfortable talking about it.

[Burning Up 4 Madonna 1,015]

When it comes to dancing I have a really hard time understanding how anyone could think Tina was any where near Madonna. Tina for sure had the stamina and passion Madonna did but dance moves? Its not even close IMO

 

[Redha DBL 7,361]

57 minutes ago, Burning Up 4 Madonna said:

When it comes to dancing I have a really hard time understanding how anyone could think Tina was any where near Madonna. Tina for sure had the stamina and passion Madonna did but dance moves? Its not even close IMO

 

No offense but it makes absolutely no sense to compare Tina and Madonna's dancing. Absolutely not the same style.of dancing. In her own style of dancing, which is kind of tribal and raw, Tinas is brilliant and so is her energy and stage presence (the video compilation you have posted aboves confirms it actually). Just as Madonna in her style of dancing. Both women are incredible stage performers and trying to compare one to the other to prove one is better than the other makes no sense in my opinion. 

[Sheridan1980 1,103]

8 minutes ago, Redha DBL said:

No offense but it makes absolutely no sense to compare Tina and Madonna's dancing. Absolutely not the same style.of dancing. In her own style of dancing, which is kind of tribal and raw, Tinas is brilliant and so is her energy and stage presence (the video compilation you have posted aboves confirms it actually). Just as Madonna in her style of dancing. Both women are incredible stage performers and trying to compare one to the other to prove one is better than the other makes no sense in my opinion. 

Madonna is a classic dancer. You can't compare her with other artists.