Is Sex Book Art or Trash?

[momosfantasy 947]

On 8/14/2023 at 9:17 AM, A. A. Aardvark said:

"Strike dear mistress
and cure his heart."
 

 

Ok with the Velvets reference!  Killer band and a killer song!

[Confessions Lightside 2,127]

Let's not forget:

• Homosexual children are still being rejected or mistreated by their conservative parents when they come out.
• Women are denied the right to have an abortion in cases of rape or when facing pregnancy complications that could lead to death, because conservatives have banned abortions. What happens to the UNWANTED child in the end or whether the mother dies due to the pregnancy doesn't matter to conservatives. So much for "Pro Life"... Pro-life people are such hypocrites...
• Christians can impose their religion on anyone. They go door to door to convert others. They send their children to Sunday schools to indoctrinate them. Conservative Christians curtail the free speech of others ("Don't Say Gay Bill", books about racism and LGBTQ topics being banned etc.), but of course, the Bible is not banned. Conservatives engage in constant misanthropic indoctrination while complaining when others resist. They constantly portray themselves as victims, even though they are the oppressors.

[Confessions Lightside 2,127]

Conservatives only care about their own opinion. They want everyone else to live by their personal, subjective beliefs and will condemn/cancel anything that doesn't conform to their norm.

[Confessions Lightside 2,127]

24 minutes ago, Confessions Lightside said:

Conservatives engage in constant misanthropic indoctrination while complaining when others resist. They constantly portray themselves as victims, even though they are the oppressors.

And precisely because they are the oppressors, conservatives despise human rights movements like feminism, BlackLivesMatter and LGBTQ. Conservatives want to retain the freedom to treat other people poorly without facing any consequences. That's why they also have an issue when the victims stand up and resist (being woke). Hence, they dislike feminism, BlackLivesMatter etc. And because conservatives always want to play the victim, they do a perpetrator-victim reversal. They claim that the "evil" feminism is just male-bashing. They attempt to undermine BlackLivesMatter with counter-movements like WhiteLivesMatter and they try to silence LGBTQ individuals by labeling them as groomers and demons.

[Donna 16,438]

5 hours ago, PlayPause said:

No it's not. Your point of view is "trash" but "trash" contains a moral judgement.

So you're just here to insinuate that an artist exploring sexuality in their work is bad.

This is not welcome here.

I'm confused? Where did I "insinuate that an artist exploring sexuality in their work is bad"?  In fact, I've stated before I thought the Sex book was "art".  I think you are confusing what I posted with someone else's point of view. What you quoted of me; was stating that I am open to hearing other people's point of view on this topic, other than mine. Your aggression on the last few pages is quite concerning.

[Blue Skies 1,303]

I saw it more as satire than anything.  She's always had a very tongue in cheek kind of sense of humor.  Hence the introduction to the book as Dita and some of those stories in it.  

 

But yeah I bought the book recently used off eBay.  I have always considered owning it a must as a Madonna fan.  Lol 

[zapasowe1 70]

2 hours ago, McDonna said:

I'm confused? Where did I "insinuate that an artist exploring sexuality in their work is bad"?  In fact, I've stated before I thought the Sex book was "art".  I think you are confusing what I posted with someone else's point of view. What you quoted of me; was stating that I am open to hearing other people's point of view on this topic, other than mine. Your aggression on the last few pages is quite concerning.

Merely naming a tread/topic with "Art or trash" is insuinating enough.Yes, in this context (a fan forum) it is. 

It's a cheap clickbait rethoric deployed by the likes of Daily Hate, I mean Mail and Piers Morgan. You chose to name this thread using such sensationalised tone so it's only fair others will also join in using a simialr rethoric.  

[RUADJAI 14,960]

3 hours ago, Confessions Lightside said:

And precisely because they are the oppressors, conservatives despise human rights movements like feminism, BlackLivesMatter and LGBTQ. Conservatives want to retain the freedom to treat other people poorly without facing any consequences. That's why they also have an issue when the victims stand up and resist (being woke). Hence, they dislike feminism, BlackLivesMatter etc. And because conservatives always want to play the victim, they do a perpetrator-victim reversal. They claim that the "evil" feminism is just male-bashing. They attempt to undermine BlackLivesMatter with counter-movements like WhiteLivesMatter and they try to silence LGBTQ individuals by labeling them as groomers and demons.

Your move @Mden. If your intention is to have an actual discussion, now is your chance. But vague right wing talking points are not gonna fly. 

The problem with you using the term "woke", is you are exposing yourself for being susceptible to whatever the right wing comes up with. There's no such thing as "the woke". It's a lie that was told to you and you bought it. It's a way to divide people so you can point and say that "they" are the problem. You expose yourself for not thinking for yourself. You have been "given" a thought to have. If your message is not love, inclusion, compassion, respect, and coexistence then you should look inside yourself and try and understand why. because your problems are not external. 

@PlayPause Take a breather. No typed words are gonna crumble your world. You are personally identifying with your thoughts and your thoughts are not who you are. You are the untouchable that thinks these thoughts. If someone challenges your thoughts, it is not a challenge of you. It doesn't affect who you are. It doesn't harm you. To quote our mother: "None of this is real, including how you feel"

 

[Mden 2,252]

45 minutes ago, RUADJAI said:

Your move @Mden. If your intention is to have an actual discussion, now is your chance. But vague right wing talking points are not gonna fly. 

The problem with you using the term "woke", is you are exposing yourself for being susceptible to whatever the right wing comes up with. There's no such thing as "the woke". It's a lie that was told to you and you bought it. It's a way to divide people so you can point and say that "they" are the problem. You expose yourself for not thinking for yourself. You have been "given" a thought to have. If your message is not love, inclusion, compassion, respect, and coexistence then you should look inside yourself and try and understand why. because your problems are not external. 

@PlayPause Take a breather. No typed words are gonna crumble your world. You are personally identifying with your thoughts and your thoughts are not who you are. You are the untouchable that thinks these thoughts. If someone challenges your thoughts, it is not a challenge of you. It doesn't affect who you are. It doesn't harm you. To quote our mother: "None of this is real, including how you feel"

 

By Woke I’m referring to those on the extreme left who explain away societal  problems by pointing at others. A lot of effort is made by the media to alienate and blame a certain group of people as the sole cause of all ills in society .This is divisive and counterproductive and false. I have had an actual semi healthy discussion  about the issue at hand  in the previous page. 

[Donna 16,438]

2 hours ago, zapasowe1 said:

Merely naming a tread/topic with "Art or trash" is insuinating enough.Yes, in this context (a fan forum) it is. 

It's a cheap clickbait rethoric deployed by the likes of Daily Hate, I mean Mail and Piers Morgan. You chose to name this thread using such sensationalised tone so it's only fair others will also join in using a simialr rethoric.  

You can read into it as you like.  I offered a legit discussion/poll. Most everyone replied respectively and offered their opinion. The world is full of likes and dislikes.  Just because we are huge fans, doesn't mean all fans are going to be favorable to everything Madonna does. My intention is to learn from others. Not suppress those who may have a different view than me.  Posting this has nothing to do with "clickbait" or any "sensationalistic tone".  To assume such, makes me assume you're not open to others' opinions.  For years, this book has been discussed from all sides.  The media and public alike have weighed in many times, by either discussing the artistic merits of it or simply calling it "trash".  It's only fair to hear what fans really think of this book.  I genuinely posted this thread with hopes of a meaningful, respectable and civil discussion. Unfortunately, like with anything in this world, even the best intentions tend to get ruined by those who want to twist and turn things into a negative.  It's interesting one would rather twist this into an argument on the intentions of why I posted this, rather just discuss what the topic is really about.  If you or anyone else prefer to continue to question my intention of this thread, that's your prerogative, but don't expect me to further defend my intentions here.  I think I've made it quite clear that I am here to genuinely learn and discuss fans' opinions of Madonna's "Sex" Book whether I agree with them or not.  Feel free to do the same.

[RUADJAI 14,960]

56 minutes ago, Mden said:

By Woke I’m referring to those on the extreme left who explain away societal  problems by pointing at others. A lot of effort is made by the media to alienate and blame a certain group of people as the sole cause of all ills in society .This is divisive and counterproductive and false. I have had an actual semi healthy discussion  about the issue at hand  in the previous page. 

But when you are fighting against blaming a certain group of people by blaming a certain group of people you have become the thing you are against. 

[Mden 2,252]

1 minute ago, RUADJAI said:

But when you are fighting against blaming a certain group of people by blaming a certain group of people you have become the thing you are against. 

Ok, I’ll tone it down. And by the way I appreciate what you’re doing here. Sorry for being a nuisance.

[lap 1,495]

10 hours ago, zapasowe1 said:

Sounds like you’re blaming the victim rather than the oppressor. 

I never see Madonna as a victim, so you argument is not valid for me. She was doing exactly what she wanted, she knew the risks and gone ahead (and so far for many). One thing is to talk about sex or simulating sex in a show or in a movie, other thing is to be so explicit like she did in SEX book. Girlie Show was an amazing show IMO, but it wasn't explicit like SEX book. Some people admired her corageous, others didn't. People should know there are always mixed feeling and reactions about sex since the world exists. Madonna opted then to save her career as she softned her image 2 years later with BS, and then STR, Evita and ROL. 

[zapasowe1 70]

19 hours ago, McDonna said:

You can read into it as you like.  I offered a legit discussion/poll. Most everyone replied respectively and offered their opinion. The world is full of likes and dislikes.  Just because we are huge fans, doesn't mean all fans are going to be favorable to everything Madonna does. My intention is to learn from others. Not suppress those who may have a different view than me.  Posting this has nothing to do with "clickbait" or any "sensationalistic tone".  To assume such, makes me assume you're not open to others' opinions.  For years, this book has been discussed from all sides.  The media and public alike have weighed in many times, by either discussing the artistic merits of it or simply calling it "trash".  It's only fair to hear what fans really think of this book.  I genuinely posted this thread with hopes of a meaningful, respectable and civil discussion. Unfortunately, like with anything in this world, even the best intentions tend to get ruined by those who want to twist and turn things into a negative.  It's interesting one would rather twist this into an argument on the intentions of why I posted this, rather just discuss what the topic is really about.  If you or anyone else prefer to continue to question my intention of this thread, that's your prerogative, but don't expect me to further defend my intentions here.  I think I've made it quite clear that I am here to genuinely learn and discuss fans' opinions of Madonna's "Sex" Book whether I agree with them or not.  Feel free to do the same.

@McDonna, you're right - it's all about sharing knowledge, no sh!t stirring here... In the spirit of your way of asking for fans' opinions and "sharing knowledge", here are some next poll questions you may consider (as they fall in the same tone of voice as the oen you here initiated) : 

💔 "Madonna - a marketing genius or a modern artist?"

✨ "Vogue - a cultural moment or a cultural appropriaton"

⭐ "A woman - a saint or a wh0re?"

etc.

[Donna 16,438]

12 hours ago, zapasowe1 said:

@McDonna, you're right - it's all about sharing knowledge, no sh!t stirring here... In the spirit of your way of asking for fans' opinions and "sharing knowledge", here are some next poll questions you may consider (as they fall in the same tone of voice as the oen you here initiated) : 

💔 "Madonna - a marketing genius or a modern artist?"

✨ "Vogue - a cultural moment or a cultural appropriaton"

⭐ "A woman - a saint or a wh0re?"

etc.

Seems like you're the one shit stirring here. Rather just participate in the thread (as many as 100 members already did without objection), you prefer to harass me over how I posed my question.    Thanks (but no thanks) for your unsolicited advice, but I'll post my topics anyway I please as long as it follows the guidelines of this community. Feel free to start your own threads your own way. Don't dictate to me how I should start mine.     "Goodnight And Thank You!"

[Scottyx 8,778]

Some of you take a survey poll and beat the shit out of it.

[Confessions Lightside 2,127]

On 8/20/2023 at 4:07 PM, Confessions Lightside said:

Conservatives engage in constant misanthropic indoctrination while complaining when others resist. They constantly portray themselves as victims, even though they are the oppressors.

Store Owner Is Fatally Shot by Man Who Confronted Her About Pride Flag

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/20/us/lake-arrowhead-california-pride-flag-shooting.html

Right-wing people make me sick and tired!

[zapasowe1 70]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:04 PM, PlayPause said:

Oh please, is this Fox News?

I got the same vibes. Very Trumpian, too. 

[BoyToyMark 346]

On 8/14/2023 at 6:43 PM, Ayham said:

Personally I feel it’s not art nor trash… it’s just something in between… some few shots were ICONIC and pure ART but the rest unfortunately were horrible, not to mention the nonsense stories. 🥲🤣

This! Some pics are fantastic. Iconic honestly.

Others are pointless and silly. Not sexy, not funny just eh.

The stories are fine but they're again, kind of eh

[zapasowe1 70]

an elevated music-centred and not a clickbait discussion here: https://madonna-infinity.net/forums/topic/36646-singles-if-erotica-never-received-damage-control-treatment/