tricky ricky

Why do people say Madonna has no talent

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I find a lot of people who dont know anything about Madonna tend to say she does not have any talent and is just a good marketing person ..I find it really annoying because i believe she is super talented and it makes me sad that somebody that i adore has people claim she is not talented..Is it because she does not have a huge vocal range or is it because she has been sexual throughout her career 

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I heard such sentences all through the 80s and 90s, and of course, its not true. Madonna may have lost touch with her more creative side over the past decade or so, but one could not last 30+ years in the music industry without any talent. 

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Honestly, she really has changed the way of making music. For better or for worse. But music is what it is now because of Madonna. Not because of Whitney or Mariah or Celine. And she did it with her music videos, with her theatrical live shows, with Truth or Dare. Many albums are really ahead of their time, especially Erotica. I think one of the reasons why she made pop culture is because she came out in a very creative environment, with Warhol and Haring. She learnt from the best. Provocation and using sex can be both a political or a commercial move, but this double side is what makes it interesting.

Problem is her voice has a limited range and, not doing voice lessons as much as dancing or gym, it hasn't improved. She is often out of tune, one of the worst case being YMLM in Athens:

 

She also lypsinchs or heavily relies on backing vocals, which is embarassing for every good musician. Look at this video which surfaced yesterday of RHT Bangkok:

And also her live concerts are not very live anymore, with fake instrumentation, fake background vocals, no bass player. I could mention the bad karaoke rendition of Take a bow during last tour, with Monte almost pretending to play . Also in her albums many sounds are synthetized and not played with real instruments. Music people can't really appreciate that. If you hear the original demos of the songs of the last decade you can see that she gets a writing credit for just changing a line or two.

Pity because she has had great musical directors in the past (WTG, GS) and she has also written wonderful songs, think of LAP album lyrics for instance.

Lastly, her terrible acting doesn't help. Although she is a fabulous actress in her music videos.

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Pop music has always been frowned upon and she sold sex, which people take to be too easy to do. People look down on porn stars, even though they work for a living like everyone else. They don't get the reason why Madonna was taking off her clothes and objectifying herself purposely. Like Warhol, her style has always an homage to others and eras that came before her which some will interpret as a rip-off. She chooses to collaborate rather than work solo, which is probably the reason she has lasted as long as she has. People see this as her not being behind her own work. Then of course there are people who just don't like her. lol.

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Because they are ignorant, end of the story.

The myth that Madonna does 'nothing', 'she doesn't write her music', 'she's just a marketing product', 'she's a whore', 'she can't sing' etc has spread through the years, and people don't feel the need to dig deeper into Madonna's ACTUAL story & catalogue; it's sad but true, I was talking with someone I know about this not long ago..

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52 minutes ago, Enrico said:

Honestly, she really has changed the way of making music. For better or for worse. But music is what it is now because of Madonna. Not because of Whitney or Mariah or Celine. And she did it with her music videos, with her theatrical live shows, with Truth or Dare. Many albums are really ahead of their time, especially Erotica. I think one of the reasons why she made pop culture is because she came out in a very creative environment, with Warhol and Haring. She learnt from the best. Provocation and using sex can be both a political or a commercial move, but this double side is what makes it interesting.

Problem is her voice has a limited range and, not doing voice lessons as much as dancing or gym, it hasn't improved. She is often out of tune, one of the worst case being YMLM in Athens:

 

She also lypsinchs or heavily relies on backing vocals, which is embarassing for every good musician. Look at this video which surfaced yesterday of RHT Bangkok:

And also her live concerts are not very live anymore, with fake instrumentation, fake background vocals, no bass player. I could mention the bad karaoke rendition of Take a bow during last tour, with Monte almost pretending to play . Also in her albums many sounds are synthetized and not played with real instruments. Music people can't really appreciate that. If you hear the original demos of the songs of the last decade you can see that she gets a writing credit for just changing a line or two.

Pity because she has had great musical directors in the past (WTG, GS) and she has also written wonderful songs, think of LAP album lyrics for instance.

Lastly, her terrible acting doesn't help. Although she is a fabulous actress in her music videos.

that version of you must love me is a bit flat but its not so bad ...loads of artists sing with a backing tape you could hear it very low in that clip but her face is a picture ..got all messed up started singing too late its not like she totally lip syncs 

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57 minutes ago, Enrico said:

Honestly, she really has changed the way of making music. For better or for worse. But music is what it is now because of Madonna. Not because of Whitney or Mariah or Celine. And she did it with her music videos, with her theatrical live shows, with Truth or Dare. Many albums are really ahead of their time, especially Erotica. I think one of the reasons why she made pop culture is because she came out in a very creative environment, with Warhol and Haring. She learnt from the best. Provocation and using sex can be both a political or a commercial move, but this double side is what makes it interesting.

Problem is her voice has a limited range and, not doing voice lessons as much as dancing or gym, it hasn't improved. She is often out of tune, one of the worst case being YMLM in Athens:

 

She also lypsinchs or heavily relies on backing vocals, which is embarassing for every good musician. Look at this video which surfaced yesterday of RHT Bangkok:

And also her live concerts are not very live anymore, with fake instrumentation, fake background vocals, no bass player. I could mention the bad karaoke rendition of Take a bow during last tour, with Monte almost pretending to play . Also in her albums many sounds are synthetized and not played with real instruments. Music people can't really appreciate that. If you hear the original demos of the songs of the last decade you can see that she gets a writing credit for just changing a line or two.

Pity because she has had great musical directors in the past (WTG, GS) and she has also written wonderful songs, think of LAP album lyrics for instance.

Lastly, her terrible acting doesn't help. Although she is a fabulous actress in her music videos.

Wow, soooo much negativity. She has been accused of being talentless since the very beginning. Often by men. The idea that she simply slept her way to the top was widely believed by many. Perfect way of undermining a strong woman. Keeping her in her place. And ps, she is not "lip synching" in that clip she is singing live over a backing track, Something she has always done. And MANY others also do.

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Because misogynistic men and the women that love them as you can see run the show. Women in music aren't really awarded "talent" unless it's solely based on one dimensional vocal ability. Rarely is acknowledgment of intellectual abilty bestowed on women. Even the rare few allowed are pushed down the line in favor of all the male geniuses in rock. 

All voices are accepted as unique and genuine among male performers. They don't compare men to other men the way they do women. Men are allowed to bring thier own authentic selves to music and are celebrated for who they are. Women are compared and sized up. What women are criticized for in the music industry men have been patted on the back for. 

Madonna bust through all that and men and women resent her for it and won't give her an ounce of respect.

 

 

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I think the worst thing that can happen to a fan is to believe that Madonna is not talented and that she hasn't made the slightest effort when it comes to the writing and production of her records. Guys there's proof she's involved in everything she's done. Do your research and stop being influenced by the stupid comments on Facebook.

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I think it’s a known fact that touring strains her voice. I mean yelling in a live performance for anyone isn’t good. And this girl is NOTORIOUS for yelling stuff like “are you ready motherfuckers”. But only recently. It isn’t necessary. I don’t know where she picked it up. 

Back in the day, let’s say the beginning of Blond Ambition. Her voice was girly, fresh and on point. Then when she hit Europe it went downhill pretty fast. With a world tour, yelling or not, it’s very common to have vocal issues.

And then Girlie Show came along. I don’t know what the hell she did but her voice was SO on point for most shows. She was in her best shape ever, really doing it right. 

As a vocalist myself, a theatre vocalist, of course I understand the demands of maintaining my voice. Maybe not for a world tour but my longest theatre contract being 7 months, 8 shows a week, it was demanding..... I think with less screaming at the audience to “get on your feet motherfuckers”, she really has the potential to deliver that beautiful voice we all know she has. She’s proved it. She is immensely talented. But she could do without the yelling. Like in RHT, Burning Up came up and I’m sure that screwed up her whole show vocally for the rest of the night. 

The girl is talented. We all know she is. And she doesn’t have to prove it to anybody. She could just tone it down with the yelling throughout a live show and she’ll be just fine. She’s a singer. And she’s proven that many times throughout her career.

 

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Wait a minute I am not telling she is not talented!

I wouldn't be here! I woundn't have seen her live 20 times and collected hundreds of records!

And she wouldn't be here after 30 years!

But as a musician I am able to recognize her musical and vocal limits and I am sorry to say that she is not caring much about them... and while all the ignorant and misoginist criticism is false, this is the only aspect where she can really be attacked. I am just trying to answer the question. If we are talking about generic people criticism, I agree it's just bullshit, if we are talking some musicians not giving her much credit, they may have a few reasons.

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39 minutes ago, Enrico said:

Wait a minute I am not telling she is not talented!

I wouldn't be here! I woundn't have seen her live 20 times and collected hundreds of records!

And she wouldn't be here after 30 years!

But as a musician I am able to recognize her musical and vocal limits and I am sorry to say that she is not caring much about them... and while all the ignorant and misoginist criticism is false, this is the only aspect where she can really be attacked. I am just trying to answer the question. If we are talking about generic people criticism, I agree it's just bullshit, if we are talking some musicians not giving her much credit, they may have a few reasons.

Her vocal abilities are very limited and Madonna herself would agree to it but creativity wise shes more talented than anyone else i can think of.

Madonnas alwas been about the message.. what she wanted to convey and how she wanted to do that. Thats true artistry. Adele type of singers are incredibly gifted with a strong, powerful voice but if the message we get is always bland and cheesey like.. their talent is also very limited too. Don’t forget that. 

Memo: Madonnas not singer. Shes an artist. 

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4 hours ago, RayOfLight said:

Her vocal abilities are very limited and Madonna herself would agree to it but creativity wise shes more talented than anyone else i can think of.

Madonnas alwas been about the message.. what she wanted to convey and how she wanted to do that. Thats true artistry. Adele type of singers are incredibly gifted with a strong, powerful voice but if the message we get is always bland and cheesey like.. their talent is also very limited too. Don’t forget that.

I totally agree with that! Love the artist, the message, the pop cultural references behind each project, and this is why I would never buy an Adele album (I am not interested in bug voices show-off) while I've been following her for the last 32 years! I was just trying to figure out where the criticism comes from and how many of us have the impression that such creativity has been lost in the most recent years...

As for the writing credits, I created a new thread to discuss:

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Fighter said:

Madonna's vocal range is limited, but her voice is actually very versatile. Who else could've recorded Like A Prayer, Erotica, Vogue, Take A Bow, Live To Tell, Borderline, Ray Of Light, etc, etc which all sound so different vocally? Normally a singer sounds the same on every song but Madonna's voice has a special quality to it. 

Once again I totally agree! Such a personal voice, you can always recognize it. Such a variegated, never boring catalogue, too. That is why I think if she cared a little more about her musical direction in her live shows (as she has proved she could) she could receive much more appreciation...

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ignorance and jealousy i think ? also it irks me when people say she doesn't write her own songs too ? shes been writing songs since the early days - maybe the last album there were too many writers and thats why the album didnt gel(for me anyway) shes definitely more a marketing person now - ive seen so many MDNA skin videos ive lost count now !

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It all comes down to technique with singing. I’m sorry I keep going back to the vocals lol. I don’t know who her vocal coach is, but they should be locked away in a dungeon. At her age, yes I’m going to say age, preservation is so important. To be honest if she’s going to be yelling and screaming during tours, she needs a coach who specifies in heavy metal vocal coaching. 

There’s a way to scream and not SCREAM. 

We all know she has a beautiful voice. I just think she needs something more than a simple vocal warm up. Jesus is love to coach her.

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3 hours ago, Fighter said:

Madonna's vocal range is limited, but her voice is actually very versatile. Who else could've recorded Like A Prayer, Erotica, Vogue, Take A Bow, Live To Tell, Borderline, Ray Of Light, etc, etc which all sound so different vocally? Normally a singer sounds the same on every song but Madonna's voice has a special quality to it. 

I agree.... and guys... look at that:

 

 

 

These vocal are EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And M is knowing for her rare low-pitched tones..... 

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