No hating but...what happened to Madonna after 2007?

[BoyToyMark 346]

I think the biggest change happened after 2014. MDNA still felt like the Madonna I'd seen growing up from the late 90s to then. 

I feel through the MDNA era she was still very much processing the changes in her life since Hard Candy and I feel in 2014 while recording Rebel Heart she shifted for sure. 

Is it good or bad? It's still her and we still had a couple of great albums with some stellar moments.  I'm happy to see the work of the Celebration Tour. She's at her best when she's doing music.

[GregVsMatt 3,706]

59 minutes ago, xavier said:

Meanwhile Madonna this week in 2024

Exactly - let this thread die

[Redha DBL 7,376]

No one said she's still on a low point currently. Many fans feel like things went downhill around 2017/2020. Obviously things are now going better.

[TOpher 900]

On 4/7/2024 at 10:49 AM, Debord said:

It's easy to be dismissive of ageing as a reason for anything but what I never see discussed in these (now endless) takes on Madonna is that obviously an artist ages, but we age too, and the interaction we have with them is impacted by both in heaps of ways. I mean, I personally think that a lot of the gay men in particular who do that whole 'I've been a Madonna fan my whole life but...' thing constantly these days have quite glaring issues with their own ageing and seeing that reflected in Madonna.

What would a Madonna who people think is 'still like the Madonna of 25 years ago' be like? What would she be doing? As others have observed, the total music industry and media landscape has transformed around her. She's not our friend, she's not a family member, she's an artist who clearly still wants to keep pushing ahead and to be well into her 5th decade of being successful and still be being spoken about is a pretty incredible achievement. I always think that her legacy is so vast and her impact so huge that if folk who've been fans don't feel they like her anymore, they should just check out and revel in the work they do love, cos really it's spectacularly easy to not see her Instagram/TikTok posts if they bother you.

Oh please what a boring cop out to say that it’s about her age 😂😂😂 literally has nothing to do with age. Sorry but nothing she has done post confessions comes close to the level of greatness pre confessions. Quality of music, quality of photoshoots, interviews, quality of videos, etc. if any other artist would have released HC, MDNA, RH and MX (save for some songs here and there) I would never have given them a second thought or second listen. I don’t listen to those albums because I don’t find them very good. Has nothing to do with age. 
to me there is pre confession and post confessions because of the huge huge shift in quality of work. I don’t like it but Stan pre-C to the day I die. 

[Debord 426]

27 minutes ago, TOpher said:

Oh please what a boring cop out to say that it’s about her age 😂😂😂 literally has nothing to do with age. Sorry but nothing she has done post confessions comes close to the level of greatness pre confessions. Quality of music, quality of photoshoots, interviews, quality of videos, etc. if any other artist would have released HC, MDNA, RH and MX (save for some songs here and there) I would never have given them a second thought or second listen. I don’t listen to those albums because I don’t find them very good. Has nothing to do with age. 
to me there is pre confession and post confessions because of the huge huge shift in quality of work. I don’t like it but Stan pre-C to the day I die. 

I have never, ever seen a 'Madonna has been rubbish since Confessions' person thoughtfully think about how her entering her 50s after that impacts on her role in an art form which was always predicated on, and aimed at, youth (something which she's played a huge role in changing). How her age necessarily means she's more 'out of touch' and how if she does make music following current trends, her age means she's presented as 'desperate' etc. Instead it's always just cry laugh emojis and an instant 'lol lmao age is irrelevant lol'.

And 'if another artist released...' is just such a crap criteria to apply. You can say that about most long music careers. The point is that we become familiar with an artist and their work and that rich history feeds into new work, and Madonna's latter-day albums draw very much on her history and add levels which some random artist we don't know simply wouldn't have. That matters.

Ultimately, if folk don't like anything post-Confessions, that's up to them. I just don't get why it's an opinion which a minority feel they need to share so often, so vocally, for such a long time. What's the outcome you're hoping for?

[Redha DBL 7,376]

1 hour ago, Debord said:

I have never, ever seen a 'Madonna has been rubbish since Confessions' person thoughtfully think about how her entering her 50s after that impacts on her role in an art form which was always predicated on, and aimed at, youth (something which she's played a huge role in changing). How her age necessarily means she's more 'out of touch' and how if she does make music following current trends, her age means she's presented as 'desperate' etc. Instead it's always just cry laugh emojis and an instant 'lol lmao age is irrelevant lol'.

And 'if another artist released...' is just such a crap criteria to apply. You can say that about most long music careers. The point is that we become familiar with an artist and their work and that rich history feeds into new work, and Madonna's latter-day albums draw very much on her history and add levels which some random artist we don't know simply wouldn't have. That matters.

Ultimately, if folk don't like anything post-Confessions, that's up to them. I just don't get why it's an opinion which a minority feel they need to share so often, so vocally, for such a long time. What's the outcome you're hoping for?

Just try to cool it down with people's opinions that are different than yours. You don't have a long posts history in the forum but i only see you battling with people's opinions and not only in this thread. Everyone has his opinion and as long as everything is expressed with respect it's perfectly fine. What a boring forum it would be if everyone shared the same opinions. Peace.

[Debord 426]

1 minute ago, Redha DBL said:

Everyone is posting like one time his opinion on this thread then move on. You're already at 3 long posts within a few hours to battle with everyone's opinion which is not similar to yours and you're the one complaining that people share "so often and so vocally" their opinions... Maybe you should try to accept opinions that are different than yours cause ironically you don't have a long posts history but i see you're the one being "so often and so vocally" battling with people's opinions and not only in this thread.

You've posted 4 times in this single thread just in the past 12 hours. We're on a forum to discuss Madonna. If you can't handle being challenged without immediate recourse to trying to attack the person challenging you, maybe a discussion forum isn't for you and you're better off just pumping out Tweets about Madonna's face or whatever. And given we're presumably all adults with brains, I think folk can handle 2 or 3 short paragraphs but then I tend to give people credit that they can read things and think about them and agree or disagree.

[Redha DBL 7,376]

2 minutes ago, Debord said:

You've posted 4 times in this single thread just in the past 12 hours. We're on a forum to discuss Madonna. If you can't handle being challenged without immediate recourse to trying to attack the person challenging you, maybe a discussion forum isn't for you and you're better off just pumping out Tweets about Madonna's face or whatever. And given we're presumably all adults with brains, I think folk can handle 2 or 3 short paragraphs but then I tend to give people credit that they can read things and think about them and agree or disagree.

I've actually edited my original post cause i felt it was a bit too "in your face" and went for something more peacefull as you can see but you've been fast to answer and saw the original one. Nevermind, i don't mean no arm but jumping at everyone's throat when you read an opinion that is not similar to yours is not the right way to go in my opinion. If you can't stand anyone saying that he prefers Madonna's music pre Hard Candy or that he prefers when she doesn't go overboard with plastic procedures it's your issue actually, maybe you're insecure with what Madonna reflects for a few years so that you're over sensitive about it. I think it's perfectly sane to be able to admit that you prefer Madonna and her art the way it was a few years ago and still being active on a forum cause we love her all the same. 

[Debord 426]

1 minute ago, Redha DBL said:

I've actually edited my original post cause i felt it was a bit too "in your face" and went for something more peacefull as you can see but you've been fast to answer and saw the original one. Nevermind, i don't mean no arm but jumping at everyone's throat when you read an opinion that is not similar to yours is not the right way to go in my opinion. If you can't stand anyone saying that he prefers Madonna's music pre Hard Candy or that he prefers when she doesn't go overboard with plastic procedures it's your issue actually, maybe you're insecure with what Madonna reflects for a few years so that you're over sensitive about it. I think it's perfectly sane to be able to admit that you prefer Madonna and her art the way it was a few years ago and still being active on a forum cause we love her all the same. 

It's precisely cos I hate the standom thing of hurling insults at each other than I always stick to the discussion at hand and try and think about things, hence longer posts than might be typical. Pointing out that ways in which age plays a role in someone's pop career and in how it's interpreted is not 'I can't stand anyone saying they prefer M's music pre-Hard Candy' (which isn't what was said anyway) and I'm sorry, but one second saying we should be 'respectful' and then suggesting it's unreasonable to challenge someone attacking a woman's appearance for no apparent reason is totally wrong-headed to me.

I couldn't care less if someone 'prefers' a certain era of Madonna. That's an incredibly different proposition from banging on about her face or saying she's done nothing decent in 20 years (and as I wrote above, someone can of course believe that all they want - I just question what they're hoping to achieve by stating it in a Madonna forum, particularly when folk with that view tend to state it a lot).

[Redha DBL 7,376]

47 minutes ago, Debord said:

It's precisely cos I hate the standom thing of hurling insults at each other than I always stick to the discussion at hand and try and think about things, hence longer posts than might be typical. Pointing out that ways in which age plays a role in someone's pop career and in how it's interpreted is not 'I can't stand anyone saying they prefer M's music pre-Hard Candy' (which isn't what was said anyway) and I'm sorry, but one second saying we should be 'respectful' and then suggesting it's unreasonable to challenge someone attacking a woman's appearance for no apparent reason is totally wrong-headed to me.

I couldn't care less if someone 'prefers' a certain era of Madonna. That's an incredibly different proposition from banging on about her face or saying she's done nothing decent in 20 years (and as I wrote above, someone can of course believe that all they want - I just question what they're hoping to achieve by stating it in a Madonna forum, particularly when folk with that view tend to state it a lot).

Whatever... I leave it at it now. Peace ✌️

[TOpher 900]

3 hours ago, Debord said:

I have never, ever seen a 'Madonna has been rubbish since Confessions' person thoughtfully think about how her entering her 50s after that impacts on her role in an art form which was always predicated on, and aimed at, youth (something which she's played a huge role in changing). How her age necessarily means she's more 'out of touch' and how if she does make music following current trends, her age means she's presented as 'desperate' etc. Instead it's always just cry laugh emojis and an instant 'lol lmao age is irrelevant lol'.

And 'if another artist released...' is just such a crap criteria to apply. You can say that about most long music careers. The point is that we become familiar with an artist and their work and that rich history feeds into new work, and Madonna's latter-day albums draw very much on her history and add levels which some random artist we don't know simply wouldn't have. That matters.

Ultimately, if folk don't like anything post-Confessions, that's up to them. I just don't get why it's an opinion which a minority feel they need to share so often, so vocally, for such a long time. What's the outcome you're hoping for?

Oh good grief You're insufferable. 

[Debord 426]

18 minutes ago, TOpher said:

Oh good grief You're insufferable. 

😚😚

[nito84bcn 2,762]

17 hours ago, TOpher said:

Oh please what a boring cop out to say that it’s about her age 😂😂😂 literally has nothing to do with age. Sorry but nothing she has done post confessions comes close to the level of greatness pre confessions. Quality of music, quality of photoshoots, interviews, quality of videos, etc. if any other artist would have released HC, MDNA, RH and MX (save for some songs here and there) I would never have given them a second thought or second listen. I don’t listen to those albums because I don’t find them very good. Has nothing to do with age. 
to me there is pre confession and post confessions because of the huge huge shift in quality of work. I don’t like it but Stan pre-C to the day I die. 

Medellín, Batuka, God Control, Bitch I'm Madonna, Give me all your luvin'... those videos pee on Love profusion, Jump, Celebration, Give it 2 me and Miles Away. And I just said some of the good ones of 2010's...

Superbowl pees on all Live Earth show and Live 8. MDNA pees on Re-Invention Tour.

I can continue on and on. Let's not pretend that she wasn't good on her 50-60's 

[Debord 426]

9 minutes ago, nito84bcn said:

Medellín, Batuka, God Control, Bitch I'm Madonna, Give me all your luvin'... those videos pee on Love profusion, Jump, Celebration, Give it 2 me and Miles Away. And I just said some of the good ones of 2010's...

Superbowl pees on all Live Earth show and Live 8. MDNA pees on Re-Invention Tour.

I can continue on and on. Let's not pretend that she wasn't good on her 50-60's 

Not to mention the various "videos" in the 80s which consisted of clips of other videos, or videos like Dear Jessie, I'll Remember or Love Don't Live Here Anymore which are hardly "big effort".

[Roland Barthes 5,852]

I wanna ask "What happened to pop music after 2007 ?" because, seriously, there's a real shift in quality in the late 00's. The horror that is EDM was to music what Trump has been to politic.

[Redha DBL 7,376]

2 hours ago, Roland Barthes said:

 The horror that is EDM was to music what Trump has been to politic.

Totally agree.

[Drownedboy 1,679]

10 hours ago, nito84bcn said:

 

Superbowl pees on all Live Earth show and Live 8. MDNA pees on Re-Invention Tour.

I love the three of them, but they are totally a whole different story each other. Superbowl visually yes, but it´s lyp synching, whereas the other were live vocals and quite good I must say.

 

[A. A. Aardvark 4,847]

On 4/9/2024 at 11:31 AM, Roland Barthes said:

I wanna ask "What happened to pop music after 2007 ?" because, seriously, there's a real shift in quality in the late 00's. The horror that is EDM was to music what Trump has been to politic.

nice piccy though

[A. A. Aardvark 4,847]

On 4/9/2024 at 11:17 AM, Debord said:

Not to mention the various "videos" in the 80s which consisted of clips of other videos, or videos like Dear Jessie, I'll Remember or Love Don't Live Here Anymore which are hardly "big effort".

that can happen for several reasons
and not just laziness

[TOpher 900]

On 4/9/2024 at 6:05 AM, nito84bcn said:

Medellín, Batuka, God Control, Bitch I'm Madonna, Give me all your luvin'... those videos pee on Love profusion, Jump, Celebration, Give it 2 me and Miles Away. And I just said some of the good ones of 2010's...

Superbowl pees on all Live Earth show and Live 8. MDNA pees on Re-Invention Tour.

I can continue on and on. Let's not pretend that she wasn't good on her 50-60's 

Batuka, Bitch I’m Madonna, Give me All you’re lovin’ MDNA tour? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Pootz333 2,695]

I get the pre/ post Confessions thing.

For me it was the transition between Vogue and Music at the Superbowl. From creamy smooth pop icon goddess to drunk cruise ship tribute act in 2 seconds. (If you all loved the rest of it, I'm very happy for you).

RH has its moments.

The world ended in 2012. She was just ahead of the curve as always tbh. 

[adirondak 1,602]

On 4/8/2024 at 9:57 AM, TOpher said:

Oh please what a boring cop out to say that it’s about her age 😂😂😂 literally has nothing to do with age. Sorry but nothing she has done post confessions comes close to the level of greatness pre confessions. Quality of music, quality of photoshoots, interviews, quality of videos, etc. if any other artist would have released HC, MDNA, RH and MX (save for some songs here and there) I would never have given them a second thought or second listen. I don’t listen to those albums because I don’t find them very good. Has nothing to do with age. 
to me there is pre confession and post confessions because of the huge huge shift in quality of work. I don’t like it but Stan pre-C to the day I die. 

I think part of it is exactly what she said around the time of Rebel Heart in regards to writers camps. The style of making music changed. Artists became “too big to fail” and now use writers camps to make catchy singles but largely disingenuous albums (not all, but many). Madonna is not used to this writing style and shines when she has someone totally dedicated to the process along with her.

As far as photo shoots and videos, a lot of promotional money has left the space because albums don’t generate revenue the way they used to. This is why we see a lot of artists do product promotion in videos with larger budgets. Again, this isn’t Madonnas historic style. She’s having to learn new ways to adapt to the current music scene. 

[Redha DBL 7,376]

6 hours ago, adirondak said:

I think part of it is exactly what she said around the time of Rebel Heart in regards to writers camps. The style of making music changed. Artists became “too big to fail” and now use writers camps to make catchy singles but largely disingenuous albums (not all, but many). Madonna is not used to this writing style and shines when she has someone totally dedicated to the process along with her.

 

But no one forces her to to jump on the writers camp train. She can chose to lock herself for three weeks in a home studio with one producer and make an album the old school way if she wants to. Last week on stage when she mentionned, talking to Dallas Austin, how she loved the old way to make music and that it was real musicians and real music, i was like, girl, you can do it again that way if you want to. Some other big names still do it, so it's up to her. 

[Drownedboy 1,679]

8 hours ago, Redha DBL said:

But no one forces her to to jump on the writers camp train. She can chose to lock herself for three weeks in a home studio with one producer and make an album the old school way if she wants to. Last week on stage when she mentionned, talking to Dallas Austin, how she loved the old way to make music and that it was real musicians and real music, i was like, girl, you can do it again that way if you want to. Some other big names still do it, so it's up to her. 

Exactly.

[maddy1111 1,605]

I understand why people are still asking "what happened to Madonna after 2007?" but it is only because they love Confessions so much. It was a perfect album almost impossible to beat. But I don't think anything significant happened. 

You might like Hard Candy or not, but it was even more successful era than Confessions. She was aiming to have a smash hit in US, and she managed to do that perfectly with 4 Minutes. Followed by the most successful tour of her career lasting until 2009. She was everywhere. 

True decline for her only came in 10s:

- MDNA (at least we got Super Bowl performance and she was more or less visible in a pop world) 

- Rebel Heart (nothing much except maybe Bitch I'm Madonna doing modestly well) 

- Madame X (completely under the radar) 

All these 3 albums went completely under the radar for general public, noone was paying attention except fans. 

But I feel in 20s, she might catch another breath commercially. Celebration is a very good start, she is getting a good press, if only she would prepare some album with producers that are trending. Being back with Warner might help as well. 

I love when she is experimenting and I consider Madame X one of her best. But we, experimental guys are fed now by mother, it is time to feed a true pop/dance guys as well and general public with some smash hit. I truly believe she still can do that.. If she doesn't decide to spend next 2-3 years working on stupid movie.