Sinéad O'Connor, SNL 1992 'WAR'

[MikeyK 696]

Oy vay. The outrage mob on twitter has been pissy about this since the day Sinead died. What a strange way to honor her!

Anyway, it’s worth noting that Sinead didn’t exactly give a clear explanation for why she did it. Nowadays it’s very easy to say well duh it‘s bc of sexual abuse in the Catholic church, but there wasn’t a high profile national dialogue about that for another decade or so. At the time it kind of was seen as a nutty stunt. In that interview M said she could have explained her point, and that’s true.

And as far as her own moment, yeah Buttafuoco was a creep and her calling him the real enemy, however cheekily, was valid.

[Garry Howieson 162]

18 minutes ago, MikeyK said:

Oy vay. The outrage mob on twitter has been pissy about this since the day Sinead died. What a strange way to honor her!

Anyway, it’s worth noting that Sinead didn’t exactly give a clear explanation for why she did it. Nowadays it’s very easy to say well duh it‘s bc of sexual abuse in the Catholic church, but there wasn’t a high profile national dialogue about that for another decade or so. At the time it kind of was seen as a nutty stunt. In that interview M said she could have explained her point, and that’s true.

And as far as her own moment, yeah Buttafuoco was a creep and her calling him the real enemy, however cheekily, was valid.

I think you will find that Sinead was very clear about what she was doing if you watch the Documentary about her that came out last year. 

And for what Madonna did (and as being a Scottish guy I have no idea who Buttafocco is), were SNL trying to damage control and lighten the mood ? Or Madonna doing what she does best and support her with her ironic sense of humour which is one of the reasons I love her.   

[Donna 16,699]

33 minutes ago, MikeyK said:

Oy vay. The outrage mob on twitter has been pissy about this since the day Sinead died. What a strange way to honor her!

Anyway, it’s worth noting that Sinead didn’t exactly give a clear explanation for why she did it. Nowadays it’s very easy to say well duh it‘s bc of sexual abuse in the Catholic church, but there wasn’t a high profile national dialogue about that for another decade or so. At the time it kind of was seen as a nutty stunt. In that interview M said she could have explained her point, and that’s true.

And as far as her own moment, yeah Buttafuoco was a creep and her calling him the real enemy, however cheekily, was valid.

Actually she did!  She did various interviews in 1993, after the SNL incident.  She claimed being abused in the Magdelene Laundries in Ireland which were run by Roman Catholics. I could give you links to various interviews from the time, but I'm sure you know how to use the "google" search engine.  Also, she explained her reasoning in an ET interview not even two weeks after the incident, which ET has conveniently uploaded on their Youtube channel.

Also, I wouldn't say people weren't aware of what was going on in the Catholic Churches back then, but most definitely, there was a lot of "sweeping things under the rug" going on.  It's not that it wasn't known; it's just the majority of the public wasn't comfortable talking about it. 

[Donna 16,699]

30 minutes ago, Garry Howieson said:

I think you will find that Sinead was very clear about what she was doing if you watch the Documentary about her that came out last year. 

And for what Madonna did (and as being a Scottish guy I have no idea who Buttafocco is), were SNL trying to damage control and lighten the mood ? Or Madonna doing what she does best and support her with her ironic sense of humour which is one of the reasons I love her.   

Joey Buttafocco, an auto body shop owner, in 1992 was convicted for his extramarital affair with a minor, 17-year-old Amy Fisher.  Fisher shot his wife, Mary Jo Buttafuoco, in the face.  It was a massive story back then, pre-Cable news exploitation.

Madonna's point in ripping up Joey's pic was because he was an actual perpetrator while the Pope wasn't.  It was definitely meant to be tongue and cheek as well as light humor being on SNL (a late night comedy sketch show). Her point being "fight the real enemy" who actually did a crime when the Pope didn't.

[Garry Howieson 162]

12 minutes ago, tscott said:

Joey Buttafocco, an auto body shop owner, in 1992 was convicted for his extramarital affair with a minor, 17-year-old Amy Fisher, when Fisher shot his wife, Mary Jo Buttafuoco, in the face. 

Madonna's point in ripping up Joey's pic was because he was an actual perpetrator while the Pope wasn't.  It was definitely meant to be tongue and cheek as well as light humor being on SNL (a late night comedy sketch show). Her point being "fight the real enemy" who actually did a crime when the Pope didn't.

@tscottI might not know who he was, but I know what SNL is .  But thanks for the info on who he is (is there any documenteries on this ??. I love this kind of dark shit). But now I know who he is, I get the context now. 

[Donna 16,699]

12 minutes ago, Garry Howieson said:

@tscottI might not know who he was, but I know what SNL is .  But thanks for the info on who he is (is there any documenteries on this ??. I love this kind of dark shit). But now I know who he is, I get the context now. 

Yeah, there has been several movies on Joey's affair with Amy Fisher.  The most popular is Drew Barrymore portraying Amy Fisher in the mid 90's. Movie: The Amy Fisher Story; https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106267/

[Alibaba 1,526]

Madonna’s exact words at the time when asked: 

“I think there’s a better way to present her ideas rather than ripping up an image that means a lot to other people,” the American pop star said in an interview with Irish state RTE radio in Dublin.”If she’s against the Roman Catholic Church and she has a problem with them I think she should talk about it. I think you have to do more than denigrate a symbol.”

This was not a condemnation, nor did it question or imply a desire to demean the integrity of Sinead’s intentions. The Joey B reference is so radically decontextualized now because, aside from a Lifetime television movie legacy, there is no modern value to the story despite it being all-media-consuming at the time. I think Madonna was actually making fun of America’s stupid knee-jerk reactivity to any form of scandal, but unless she chooses to clarify her actions, we simply won’t know. 

Since Sinead’s tragic end this week I have seen multiple social media posts and news articles bringing up the notion that Madonna, along with people like Frank Sinatra, criticized Sinead and that no one ever supported her other than Kris Kristofferson. I don’t imagine supporting Sinead would have been easy given her temperament and her ideas. Sinead was a rebel and a true iconoclast, something she actually very much had in common with Madonna. They were very different political animals and represented different types of rebellion against the Catholic Church. I think it’s a shame that the discussion in today’s media isn’t more insightful in the exploration of how these public figures went about the business of making their points. Instead the typical misogynistic nonsense about how two female artist entertainers hated each other seems to be at the root of this moronic reemergence of a 30 year-old story in order to paint Sinead as a victim and rehash the stale, decades-old notion that Madonna has never had purposefulness or a mission statement, is a hypocrite, has always manipulated the public for the sake of a voracious and insatiable desire for publicity,  and therefore has no talent. This narrative has become rampant in recent years, only helped further by Madonna’s own perceived distaste for the past and the value of her legacy outside of whatever she has chosen to represent herself as since 2021. Rather than waiting for Madonna to right the wrongs of her own history rewrites (yes, she has been quite impassioned about this in recent years with this cartoonish veneer that seems allergic to depth or context, and it isn’t because she is recovering from illness that she shouldn’t be held to task), we have to know the history, and be more vocal when the narrative needs correcting. It’s becoming so absurd how much Madonna is being written out of the annals of modern popular culture. Before we know it she will be considered no more than a glorified Cilla Black or a Cher wannabe. 

[Honey Little 4,074]

I remember some magazine interview with Madonna in which she said Sinead O’Connor “is about as sexy as a cat run over by a lawnmower”. Personally, I thought it was hilarious. I think it was either Rolling Stone or Interview. But I can’t remember. I love when Madonna reads people.

[MikeyK 696]

1 hour ago, tscott said:

Actually she did!  She did various interviews in 1993, after the SNL incident.  She claimed being abused in the Magdelene Laundries in Ireland which were run by Roman Catholics. I could give you links to various interviews from the time, but I'm sure you know how to use the "google" search engine.  Also, she explained her reasoning in an ET interview not even two weeks after the incident, which ET has conveniently uploaded on their Youtube channel.

Also, I wouldn't say people weren't aware of what was going on in the Catholic Churches back then, but most definitely, there was a lot of "sweeping things under the rug" going on.  It's not that it wasn't known; it's just the majority of the public wasn't comfortable talking about it. 

Yes that’s nice she explained it weeks later in an ET interview. But at the time the incident itself happened it was out of nowhere. She didn’t elaborate besides “fight the real enemy”. I applaud her bravery and the backlash she got wasn’t warranted, but she could have planned a statement with more clarity. Of course people watching were going to be  gobsmacked and not understand what she was on about.

Some people of course knew about the abuse but it didn’t become a national conversation until that first major report broke out of Boston in 2002. That was a watershed moment that made the entire issue no longer ignorable, and part of why so many people nowadays retroactively commend Sinead.

[MikeyK 696]

1 hour ago, Garry Howieson said:

I think you will find that Sinead was very clear about what she was doing if you watch the Documentary about her that came out last year. 

And for what Madonna did (and as being a Scottish guy I have no idea who Buttafocco is), were SNL trying to damage control and lighten the mood ? Or Madonna doing what she does best and support her with her ironic sense of humour which is one of the reasons I love her.   

Yes. In the documentary later. And in interviews weeks later in completely different outlets. But at the time she did it, it was out of nowhere and there wasn’t much clarity besides “fight the real enemy”. Again I applaud her bravery and she didn’t deserve what came of it, but she arguably could have been clearer in the point when making that kind of statement to such a large audience.

[Donna 16,699]

16 minutes ago, MikeyK said:

Yes that’s nice she explained it weeks later in an ET interview. But at the time the incident itself happened it was out of nowhere. She didn’t elaborate besides “fight the real enemy”. I applaud her bravery and the backlash she got wasn’t warranted, but she could have planned a statement with more clarity. Of course people watching were going to be  gobsmacked and not understand what she was on about.

Some people of course knew about the abuse but it didn’t become a national conversation until that first major report broke out of Boston in 2002. That was a watershed moment that made the entire issue no longer ignorable, and part of why so many people nowadays retroactively commend Sinead.

You have to remember, 1993 was pre-internet.  People weren't able to immediately be heard moments after they did something.  But yes, the abuse was known, but a lot of people swept it under the rug at the time.  That's why she did what she did. She was trying to bring awareness to what people were ignoring!  Whether it was naiional conversation or not, doesn't matter.  Her point was to make it a world conversation.  Not sure why you are trying to find ways to somewhat diminish what she was doing?  It's people like her who bring things like this to light that help bring it to national exposure.   That was the whole point of what she was trying to do.  1993 was still a time when News didn't travel as fast. Even cable news was still scarce.  SNL was known world-wide at this time. So it made sense she took a stance on this show.  She knew it would gain national and possibly world exposure.

I'm not sure how clear you want it, but she was very clear back in 1993 about her abuse.  Not sure why you keep trying to diminish that fact?

[Madonna Wannabee Collector 243]

 i never thought much about it. but that whole joey fiasco was all over the place.

i think she was making fun of all the controversy - like "much ado about nothing" - type way. irony, lol.

 

[Honey Little 4,074]

4 minutes ago, Madonna Wannabee Collector said:

 i never thought much about it. but that whole joey fiasco was all over the place.

i think she was making fun of all the controversy - like "much ado about nothing" - type way. irony, lol.

 

Glad she addressed the book falling apart.. 

[Garry Howieson 162]

1 hour ago, MikeyK said:

Yes. In the documentary later. And in interviews weeks later in completely different outlets. But at the time she did it, it was out of nowhere and there wasn’t much clarity besides “fight the real enemy”. Again I applaud her bravery and she didn’t deserve what came of it, but she arguably could have been clearer in the point when making that kind of statement to such a large audience.

She did not give a flying f**k what the public thought of her, and America can be so narrow minded sometimes (I was in Vegas when Obama was elected and that was one of the worst things ever. I had an argument at the traffic lights with someone who looked at the screen outside planet hollywood and said F**king N**ger). Still haunts me.

[RUADJAI 15,091]

11 minutes ago, Garry Howieson said:

She did not give a flying f**k what the public thought of her, and America can be so narrow minded sometimes (I was in Vegas when Obama was elected and that was one of the worst things ever. I had an argument at the traffic lights with someone who looked at the screen outside planet hollywood and said F**king N**ger). Still haunts me.

Oh wow! New York City was the biggest celebration I have ever seen! 

[cyberrage 426]

Madonna was very wrong but has learnt lots since then, no sugar coating or revising what she did, can only hope she would not do the same now. She is human

[Fernando 430]

well..sometimes i feel that madonna was a bit hypocritical and contradictory with her words and deeds.. this was one of those times.. and "think there’s a better way to present her ideas rather than ripping up an image"..ok Madonna didn't tear up the pope's picture on television, but she also "offended" a lot of people with things that means for those.. so🤷🏻‍♂️

[Mden 2,252]

From ripping the Pope’s picture to being ordained a Priest by a sect not recognized by the Roman Catholic Church to converting to Islam clearly shows the woman was driven by hate and had an unreasoning desire for revenge. I think she was cray cray. RIP

[Honey Little 4,074]

1 hour ago, Mden said:

From ripping the Pope’s picture to being ordained a Priest by a sect not recognized by the Roman Catholic Church to converting to Islam clearly shows the woman was driven by hate and had an unreasoning desire for revenge. I think she was cray cray. RIP

I don’t understand what you mean, sorry. Please elaborate. You are a really thoughtful member. And I would like to know what you mean.

She was a Catholic priest? Rock/pop stars do crazy things and are full of rage and rebelliousness but both priesthood and Islam have strong reputations for being anti-gay and hate-filled. (Not that all are! I am talking solely about the general reputation.) 

I always thought Madonna couldn’t stand her. - It was the ultimate dig to perform Nothing Compares to You, showing that the genius was Prince and not Ms. O’Connor by any means. 

Also, it appears from her tweet that Ms. O’Connor was harassing Madonna’s stylist a few days before her passing. She was obviously full of resentment.

[Blue Jean 15,450]

According to Sinead’s recent accounts, Prince assaulted her. Why is nobody discussing that on Twatter? It’s always Madonna they come for.

[Blue Jean 15,450]

7 hours ago, Mden said:

From ripping the Pope’s picture to being ordained a Priest by a sect not recognized by the Roman Catholic Church to converting to Islam clearly shows the woman was driven by hate and had an unreasoning desire for revenge. I think she was cray cray. RIP

Well I don’t think labelling her “cray cray” is really the right thing to do. You do realise her struggles with mental health is probably the reason for her death? She also posted on YouTube many years ago a rant attacking and blaming her children. We know she was not well during certain periods of her life but that doesn’t make everything she said and and did hateful and revengeful. We shouldn’t stigmatize mental health.

[Blue Jean 15,450]

6 hours ago, Honey Little said:

I always thought Madonna couldn’t stand her. - It was the ultimate dig to perform Nothing Compares to You, showing that the genius was Prince and not Ms. O’Connor by any means. 

I don’t think her choice to perform that song had anything to do with Sinead. It was a song that was widely referred to after Prince’s death, that was all.

And that song would be nothing without Sinead. All of Prince’s versions of it were completely inferior. It was Sinead’s song.

[deathproof 10,635]

What the hell is going on up in here?

[Blue Jean 15,450]

11 minutes ago, deathproof said:

What the hell is going on up in here?

It's a tribute thread to Sinead O'Connor

[Honey Little 4,074]

1 hour ago, Blue Jean said:

According to Sinead’s recent accounts, Prince assaulted her. Why is nobody discussing that on Twatter? It’s always Madonna they come for.

Which accounts? Her Instagram and Twitter accounts? She’s saying stuff about Prince?