Is Sex Book Art or Trash?

[androiduser 2,463]

It's art, depicting some sleazy and "trashy" themes in an artistic setting

[mikenmark 422]

39 minutes ago, Mden said:

It’s alright. We disagree.

Wait. What? You weren't being satirical.  My mistake.  Didn't think you could actually mean what you were saying. 

[Mden 2,252]

1 minute ago, mikenmark said:

Wait. What? You weren't being satirical.  My mistake.  Didn't think you could actually mean what you were saying. 

I actually meant it. 💁

[Drownedboy 1,676]

41 minutes ago, Prayer said:

Which shows again how narrative and image control are always the key, with her and everyone else. She was allowed and "forgiven" to put those "naughty" little bits here and there cause in 1998 we were sold she was Mother Earth and suddenly everything she did was gold and she was the coolest mum in the world. It was cool to like her.

 

One of the wisest staments I´ve read here.

[Prayer 14,360]

2 minutes ago, Drownedboy said:

One of the wisest staments I´ve read here.

Thanks!

Needless to say, I love the "ROL" era and actually became a fan during that time. So no shade at all in my words, of course. Just reflecting about the whole "game" and how fickle it all is.

[androiduser 2,463]

1 hour ago, Prayer said:

Which shows again how narrative and image control are always the key, with her and everyone else. She was allowed and "forgiven" to put those "naughty" little bits here and there cause in 1998 we were sold she was Mother Earth and suddenly everything she did was gold and she was the coolest mum in the world. It was cool to like her.

 

she was only truly forgiven for her "sins" after she gave birth, the public was finally ready to let it go, but only after she was purified by becoming a mother.

[Michael_Py 234]

Its artsy, trashy, ballsy

its Madonna taking control of the pop art scene under her point of view. It’s her commanding the narrative. 
 

[Donna 16,440]

2 hours ago, Prayer said:

Thanks!

Needless to say, I love the "ROL" era and actually became a fan during that time. So no shade at all in my words, of course. Just reflecting about the whole "game" and how fickle it all is.

But don't you think if she was still in your face and far more raunchy about it all during the ROL era, she probably wouldn't have been received as well then?  Most definitely the steps she did make during that era outweighed any slip of the nipple here. 

[Donna 16,440]

4 hours ago, PlayPause said:

Well I wonder who on this forum thinks this is a serious question : Art or Trash? Are you grooming haters and bigots? What's the point?

I don't think you have to be a "hater" or a "bigot" to think negatively of this Book.  I think it's a legit question to ask.  After all, read the replies in this thread.  Some are on the fence about it.  And one person voiced it was "trash" . Also,  I think we all have come across people in the past who thought this book was "trash".  Knowing how some fans are fickle about her pushing the boundaries of nudity and sexuality, I think it's an interesting thing to discuss.

[Prayer 14,360]

19 minutes ago, McDonna said:

But don't you think if she was still in your face and far more raunchy about it all during the ROL era, she probably wouldn't have been received as well then?  Most definitely the steps she did make during that era outweighed any slip of the nipple here. 

In the end one or two of the nipple pictures were inside the "Ray Of Light" album booklet and no one said anything ("still risky!" or anything along those lines). So in the end she won. But yes, she was very subtle then and playing the "motherhood saved me" game but still very Madonna owning her sexuality, as always. I love when she "plays the game" but still leaves her own little marks here and there.

Madonna being Madonna!

[RUADJAI 14,960]

On 8/17/2023 at 1:41 AM, Mden said:

I love the whole Erotica era. Right now though the Woke is the establishment. And it would be good if she challenges it. 
If she could emphasize(in her art)the need for, taking personal responsibility, and not resorting to blaming others for failures in life, it would be much appreciated. The Woke seem to think that identifying as a minority is enough of an accomplishment. What we need now is Conservative Madonna.

 

With all due respect I think you’ve lost the plot. 

[Mden 2,252]

29 minutes ago, RUADJAI said:

 

With all due respect I think you’ve lost the plot. 

Noted.

[Confessions Lightside 2,127]

On 8/17/2023 at 7:41 AM, Mden said:

What we need now is Conservative Madonna.

HELL NO! Conservatives haven't brought anything good to this world. Thanks to them, we have religious indoctrination full of misogyny, homophobia, racism etc. Nobody needs such things in a society!

Especially now, with Ron DeSantis crawling out of hell with his "Don't Say Gay" bills, we DON'T need a conservative Madonna. Screw the conservatives!

[Mden 2,252]

14 minutes ago, Confessions Lightside said:

HELL NO! Conservatives haven't brought anything good to this world. Thanks to them, we have religious indoctrination full of misogyny, homophobia, racism etc. Nobody needs such things in a society!

Especially now, with Ron DeSantis crawling out of hell with his "Don't Say Gay" bills, we DON'T need a conservative Madonna. Screw the conservatives!

[danielsevilla 936]

ART.

[into the erotico 974]

On 8/17/2023 at 2:10 AM, Blue Jean said:

I think going “too far” was part of Madonna’s artistic journey. She was fixated on pushing peoples buttons, to stoke the fire of conservatives in support of what she really believed in. Which was defending minorities and breaking down stereotypes and fear around sex/hiv. The people she was inspired by all walked a similar path. It was an inevitable part of her artistic journey. If labels/execs had of successfully talked her out of it I think it would have come out in other forms. She had to go too far to push her own limits and get “burnt.” Otherwise she’d have remained unfulfilled as an artist. While the book is in many ways a cut and paste of different influences she brought those concepts to a mainstream platform in a way no one else ever would have. It was hugely influential to the queer community and to women. (For better or worse , that’s subjective.) This is why for me it’s her greatest work. Or certainly her most important. But really, her body of work that came before it is all a part of the same journey.

interesting point of view

[Sultrysully 2,865]

It has a lot of sociopolitical messages so it is most definitely art.... high art.  Pornography has only one message.  SEX is an excelent dissent to misogyny... homophobia... racism... sexism... xenophobia... patriarchy.... and religious persecution.  

[into the erotico 974]

To me, it as not art. She wanted to provoke America as a whole and cement her rebelious status forever and ever. Also, ita was in part a 'thank you' to her loyal gay fan base that is way it centers around gay sexuality. Some pages indicate some sort of feminism. The prose was awful like in 'Penthouse'. It is cold and humor-less. It was made for scock value. She was after all, the IT pop star. It semi killed 'Erotica' cd.. 

[kesiak 3,036]

8 minutes ago, into the erotico said:

It is cold and humor-less. It was made for scock value. She was after all, the IT pop star. It semi killed 'Erotica' cd.. 

Humourless? I find tons of humour in it actually. 

[into the erotico 974]

1 minute ago, kesiak said:

Humourless? I find tons of humour in it actually. 

[Donna 16,440]

I offer a "thanks" to all who have participated so far.  I really enjoy reading the different point of views people have offered.  I may not agree with everyone's choice or opinion, but I respect you have an opinion and are willing to share it.  Personally, I do think the "Sex" book is art.  But like some mentioned, that's subjective. I'm sure she did a lot of the things in the book, in hopes to show and make some people uncomfortable, but I also understand she was bringing an awareness of sexuality that many at the time didn't want to talk about.  She also portrayed fantasies (not necessarily her own) that interest others. She is right when she once said, people are afraid to speak of some of the topics she explores. People try to put a dirty stigma on "Sex" and/or fantasies of sorts. If she had any concern how the book would affect the reception of Erotica (the album), she wouldn't have done it.  I doubt she would have done an album called Erotica if she was concerned how it would be received. I'm sure she knew she was taking a risk.

At the end of the day, I'm glad she released "Sex".  Some may feel by doing so, it put a dent in her career, but as I said earlier in this thread, if anything it gave her a chance to "comeback" stronger afterwards. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it was one more moment in Madonna's career, she took a chance, rather just playing it safe.  Maybe it was too much by that poin for somet, but we live and learn. Besides, I don't think she would go back and erase that moment in her career.  As she stated so elegantly; "Absolutely No Regrets!"

[PlayPause 2,684]

19 hours ago, Mden said:

It’s alright. We disagree.

No, you're stirring shit and we're not happy about it.

[Mden 2,252]

1 minute ago, PlayPause said:

No, you're stirring shit and we're not happy about it.

Do you enjoy being angry?

[PlayPause 2,684]

16 hours ago, McDonna said:

I don't think you have to be a "hater" or a "bigot" to think negatively of this Book.  I think it's a legit question to ask.  After all, read the replies in this thread.  Some are on the fence about it.  And one person voiced it was "trash" . Also,  I think we all have come across people in the past who thought this book was "trash".  Knowing how some fans are fickle about her pushing the boundaries of nudity and sexuality, I think it's an interesting thing to discuss.

No it's not. Your point of view is "trash" but "trash" contains a moral judgement.

So you're just here to insinuate that an artist exploring sexuality in their work is bad.

This is not welcome here.

[PlayPause 2,684]

1 minute ago, Mden said:

Do you enjoy being angry?

Do you enjoy being a troll?