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Did she use sex to sell?


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15 hours ago, Régine Filange said:

No i didn't misquote anything. He literally wrote "Madonna has used sex to sell for her entire career" :rip: I can name you tons of hits that Madonna had success without being sexual. From Who's That Girl, Holiday, Live To Tell to Don't Tell Me, Frozen, even Die Another Day. 

No one said she wasn't sexual during her career, she wasn't using sex to sell in her entire career tho, there are plenty of examples.

You're completely misrepresenting what he meant - he posted that in response to somebody saying that Madonna has never used sex to sell her music or advance her career. He didn't mean it in derogatory way at all if you look at the whole thread, in fact, he clearly sees it as a celebratory and empowering thing. :)

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54 minutes ago, deathproof said:

Exactly. I’ve this Twitter discourse over the past few days. For some strange reason fans want to re-write Madonna’s story and her narrative, and remove anything about her using sex to market herself. It’s just laughable! And they even said Madonna being referred to as “the greatest marketing genius” is an “insult.” 🥴

What the hell has happened to this fandom?!?

It’s not just this fandom. I think society (especially in America) is regressing back to the 50s when sex was a bad thing.

I mean, they censored her covered nipple in a one second flash in the upscale of the Beautiful Stranger video. 

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11 hours ago, HampusFL said:

Well you are clearly putting your own twist on what he wrote, saying that Madonna has used sex to sell for her entire career... does not mean that it is the only thing she has done...

He wrote "Madonna has used sex to sell for her entire career.", he tweeted it, not me. He also gave examples and in one of them he said the MDNA tour was her using sex to fill stadiums default_ny133.gif She was filling stadiums in 2012 cause she was selling sex and not cause she's a good performer? But let me guess, he just forgot to mention she's a good performer too again, he always forgets to mention her talents it seems and he focuses at making his tweets seem aggressive towards her. FYI this is the same person that called her a "talented copyist" and said that few Glee covers were better than hers or idk default_ny133.gif Haven't see him being positive once, especially with other Madonna fans, you can defend him, i won't do it default_ny133.gif

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13 hours ago, steady75 said:

Thats not what he said though, You're reframing his quote mate. 

He also implied people attended the MDNA Tour to see her flashing her tits (they didn't even know it will happen but ok). Don't tell me he didn't mean that, he was talking about Madonna using sex to sell and he used that as an example, just another bad example by him. Did he forget again to mention her performing talents? Or maybe she wasn't filling stadiums cause of sex but cause she's a good performer and people know that? :Madonna006:

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38 minutes ago, Régine Filange said:

He also implied people attended the MDNA Tour to see her flashing her tits (they didn't even know it will happen but ok). Don't tell me he didn't mean that, he was talking about Madonna using sex to sell and he used that as an example, just another bad example by him. Did he forget again to mention her performing talents? Or maybe she wasn't filling stadiums cause of sex but cause she's a good performer and people know that? :Madonna006:

This is a bad thing?

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51 minutes ago, Régine Filange said:

He wrote "Madonna has used sex to sell for her entire career.", he tweeted it, not me. He also gave examples and in one of them he said the MDNA tour was her using sex to fill stadiums default_ny133.gif She was filling stadiums in 2012 cause she was selling sex and not cause she's a good performer? But let me guess, he just forgot to mention she's a good performer too again, he always forgets to mention her talents it seems and he focuses at making his tweets seem aggressive towards her. FYI this is the same person that called her a "talented copyist" and said that few Glee covers were better than hers or idk default_ny133.gif Haven't see him being positive once, especially with other Madonna fans, you can defend him, i won't do it default_ny133.gif

Sorry, but it’s clear that these tweets have made fans upset for 2 reasons:

1) Fans translate them as attacks on Madonna, and feel the need to defend her

2) They don’t like InsideTheGroove and feel like it’s important to attack and fight every tweet of his

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She used sex because she's sexual and this is who she is but at a certain point she could have sold more records without using sex, in fact it is what puts off her a lot of people, especially today because she won't put the sex thing down. But except for the virgin years she wasn't playing the sexy part, it was sexual not sexy. She has a lot of male energy and the way she used sex was conquering like a man not submissive like in being sexy to appeal. But Madonna is sex. What people liked about the Ray of Light years is that she wasn't sexual during that era and the two following ones. I remember her wearing a leotard for Hung Up putting a lot of people off again because they weren't used to her being that anymore. As soon as she divorced Guy Ritchie she became very sexual again in her work as if she wanted to make up for the decade she did not used sex in her work. Sex was part of her art and appeal and at the same time was in the way of the music, that's the ambiguity of it all, it attracted a lot of people and it put off a lot of people too but this is who she is, a very divisive person, even within her fanbase where we all want to only see the Madonna our eyes want to see.

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8 hours ago, Régine Filange said:

He also implied people attended the MDNA Tour to see her flashing her tits (they didn't even know it will happen but ok). Don't tell me he didn't mean that, he was talking about Madonna using sex to sell and he used that as an example, just another bad example by him. Did he forget again to mention her performing talents? Or maybe she wasn't filling stadiums cause of sex but cause she's a good performer and people know that? :Madonna006:

The guy has dedicated his time effort and talents to writing and recording an entire podcast series dedicated to her work and the brilliance of it?

Do I care for the guys general manner?  No not personally, but the angst and angle here seems misguided. 

he’s obviously a super fan and I’m sure it’s not just me who think it’s a really weird flex. 
 

Nothing personal Regine I just think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick here. 
It’s all love x 

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10 hours ago, Régine Filange said:

He wrote "Madonna has used sex to sell for her entire career.", he tweeted it, not me.

Nope he wrote it, but you are the one making assumptions about his attitude towards Madonna and her work based on the fact that he is writing about one aspect of her career...and lets be honest Madonna has always been an extremely sexual human being.. and have always used sex in her videos, preformances etc.. why does it piss you that much of that he is writing about it??

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13 hours ago, deathproof said:

Sorry, but it’s clear that these tweets have made fans upset for 2 reasons:

1) Fans translate them as attacks on Madonna, and feel the need to defend her

2) They don’t like InsideTheGroove and feel like it’s important to attack and fight every tweet of his

InsideTheGroove is the one being annoying to other Madonna fans, he's always under every Madonna tweet only when he has to correct something and brag about it. He never communicates with other Madonna fans there, unless he has to act like he knows better about Madonna, or unless you're one of the people that praise him, then it's all good default_ny133.gif

That's another tweet of him saying why "we" love Madonna. Haven't see him saying we love Madonna cause she makes good music once, he always says disrespectful shit like this, we love her cause she's a good copyist, we love her cause she sell sex, like that's enough, he deserves to get dragged default_ny133.gif

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11 minutes ago, Régine Filange said:

InsideTheGroove is the one being annoying to other Madonna fans, he's always under every Madonna tweet only when he has to correct something and brag about it. He never communicates with other Madonna fans there, unless he has to act like he knows better about Madonna, or unless you're one of the people that praise him, then it's all good default_ny133.gif

That's another tweet of him saying why "we" love Madonna. Haven't see him saying we love Madonna cause she makes good music once, he always says disrespectful shit like this, we love her cause she's a good copyist, we love her cause she sell sex, like that's enough, he deserves to get dragged default_ny133.gif

but he makes loads of podcasts literally praising and dissecting her songs, That's literally how you know of him

What's not clicking?

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1 hour ago, Régine Filange said:

InsideTheGroove is the one being annoying to other Madonna fans, he's always under every Madonna tweet only when he has to correct something and brag about it. He never communicates with other Madonna fans there, unless he has to act like he knows better about Madonna, or unless you're one of the people that praise him, then it's all good default_ny133.gif

That's another tweet of him saying why "we" love Madonna. Haven't see him saying we love Madonna cause she makes good music once, he always says disrespectful shit like this, we love her cause she's a good copyist, we love her cause she sell sex, like that's enough, he deserves to get dragged default_ny133.gif

Who cares?

If you dont like him, how about you block him?

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I bought Madonna's music because I liked her music. Am I the only one? Her references to sex were blown out of proportion by people I assume were not buying her music? 

People rely too much on critic's voices. If you look through Madonna's catalog her songs cover every human experience. She talks about everything. It's all about what you pay attention to and obviously her critics only pay attention to references to sex. 

That includes fans of pop stars who claim to be inspired by Madonna. They do not look all that deep into Madonna because their idols also do not look all that deep into her work. They see what they want to see and nothing else serves their purpose. 

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Rock n Roll & Pop were sold using sex. Look at Elvis, the Rolling Stones, Prince....at least Madonna was sincere compared to someone like Michael Jackson whom used sex to sale when he was having none and was not interested in it (with women) but it was part of his lyrics and dance moves (The way you make me feel, the Black or White extended video witht he car scene....). that's why i've always found him ridiculous and always prefered Madonna & Prince over him.

But like others said, if you don't like Inside the groove don't follow him, don't interract with him, don't pay attention to him. Why do you want him to share the same opinion on Madonna as you ? I don't like him, i don't listen to his shit and don't follow him like i do with members i've blocked here. We're all allowed to have different opinions, why bully, or make passive agressive remarks here (like some do) because you are bothered by someone on Madonna forums ? It's not that serious. This is not real life. Save yourself from unneeded negative energy. 

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Madonna's image has definitely always been very sexy. At the beginning of her career it made people take notice of her. It also made her a target for detractors saying that's all she has to offer (she proved them wrong of course). I've always applauded her raw sexuality and sex-positive message!

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I think the narrative is framed in a bad light. The real question is why is it a bad thing if somebody used sex in art? Like the tweet said, she owned her body, and she used her own sexual expression in her art, which to me is a very empowering thing, especially when it occurred in a time when the world, including western culture, was far more conservative than it is today, which helped put women empowerment and sexual liberation at the forefront of many mainstream works and conversations, and to me that is huge achievement.

It is less about sex and more about liberation, and less about defining yourself by sex and more about normalizing the use of sex and your body on your own terms, rather than being defined by the way others want it to be. 

Throughout history, sex was always represented as the “obligation that women must give to men in exchange for things” rather than a pleasure for consenting partners, which is extremely harmful because it treats sex as an object that men need and women must give, rather than a pleasure that both parties can enjoy with agreement to what makes both sides happy.

Madonna took that agency that men had over Women’s bodies and instead she decided to be the master of it. Like “I express my desire the way it pleases me, with the men or women of my choice. I’m not going to present my sexuality the way you deem to be right, but rather on my own terms”

That message generated so much outrage and also so much approval, and if that helped her sell then I’d say she’s earned every cent because she promoted owning your sexuality rather than waiting for someone else’s approval, especially in a time and world where women weren’t allowed to enjoy sex but rather expected to submit to the will of men and only serve it when and how it pleases them.

With that said, it is without a shred of a doubt that Madonna’s career doesn’t hinge on sex. She’s had far more to offer than sex and some of her best tracks are ones that are more political, introspective or enigmatic than the ones about dance and sex. The buzz might have gotten her popularity, but she would’ve fell behind long ago if sex was her sole subject, especially in such an sexist, ageist and superficial global mindset towards women and people in general.

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1 hour ago, godx said:

Inside The Groove is saying it wasn't political or layered, and that she just did it to sell / get attention.

And this is a bad thing?

1 hour ago, godx said:

And if anyone is re-writing history it's the person claiming Madonna used sex to sell 'her entire career'. (1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004?)

Again, so what? This isn't an insult.

1 hour ago, godx said:

It's not a coincidence that this person has degraded and critisised her publicly for 20+ years and even made a living off it, I'm sure many of you know his history. Diminishing her entire career to mindless sex propoganda is the easiest way to undermine Madonna's legacy, misogynists have been doing it since the 1990s - he is nothing new.

As pointed out previously, this further proves that this whole ordeal is a personal attack on insidethegroove person.

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