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well you may not like Biden but the alternative was Trump, so what choice did she have?

Being a Madonna fan is ultimately being in the political arena. She’s been political since day 1 and counting. Also this debate goes beyond Republicans/Democrats/Far Left. It’s about the worst nightmare of the free world vs decency and basic human rights. Madonna will always stand up for a better world and Biden winning is a step in that direction, no matter your partisan affiliation. PERIOD

You're welcome! I will keep it there for a while!

https://www.facebook.com/411911028824748/videos/3379107428837158/

It’s the boomer generation. They have PTSD from the Cold War and they’d rather embrace radical capitalism than conservative socialism. They benefited from the privileges of capitalism that are not available to millennials and gen z. They bought their houses, had their reasonable private healthcare and fattened their 401k. Also, generationally, current social issues are not even in their radar.

No part of my post was a lie.

The worst one I think was the bunch of armed Trump supporters in trucks swarming Biden's campaign bus in Texas forcing them to cancel a rally, that was caught on a video that Trump retweeted with "I LOVE TEXAS!". I've definitely seen worse from that side... no doubt because we are in different circles. Like for instance the people Trump told on the debate to go "observe" the voting who showed up with guns at several polling stations to tell voters to "do the right thing". Very scary stuff.

Unfortunately as you can see there's no victory against fascism, it is alive and well and thriving in this fandom, but it's nice to expose the truth once and for all as painful and cutting as it might be.

And that's where I stopped reading. I'm not a fan of Biden, far from it, but he's clearly the lesser of 2 evils. Anyone that can't see this at this point, anyone trusting camp-Trump more than his adversaries, needs a head exam or a long vacation. Thank you @Fighter for the banner indeed !

Your responses here are all intelligent, well reasoned, and based on facts. It's truly a joy to read your posts. I thank you.

We do have to remember that millions of POC, LGBT and women voted for Trump, so it doesn't help our case when we call people on that side simply problematic bigots. A lot of cubans voted for Trump in Florida due to the right fearmongering Biden as a dangerous socialist, they also tend to lean more conservative as a demographic. You cannot underestimate the power of rhetoric and the diversity in ideology in different demographics, so leftists have to be cautious in how they handle it. Otherwise the right's propaganda of hysterical far-left woke cretins starts to ring true for the other side. We can't be so puritanical as frustrating as it is. We would be yelling in our own bubble and reinforcing the other side's bubble.

Trump is a social phenomenon that needed to stop before fully eroding this country and the world in general. And the crowning achievement of conservative policies. I don’t fully support Bernie and don’t even get me started on the current Democratic Party. But extreme capitalism has failed 90% of the people in this country. So it’s time for a new “American Experiment”. Hopefully one where everyone’s voice is heard and represented.

Yeah Time Stood Still deserves its rightful place on a proper Madonna album. It’s too special to be left floundering in the void.

Human decency is listening to each other with an open ear not demonising everyone that doesn’t share the same opinion as you. There are ways to challenge opinions that don’t involve vitriol and fighting. Isn’t this the entire lesson here?

People say this is politics. But this is a world impacting event. And tangential to Madonna. So yes it should be discussed and debated in a civilized manner.

The only thing that's very irregular about the election is Trump's attempt at a coup, unfortunately. America is a serious country in this sense, you can't just manufacture a voter fraud crisis, there is so much bipartisan election oversight that the scenario he paints of millions of illegal votes, is simply made up. The results have already been certified by GOP and Democrat observers present in the vote counts, and Trump's illegitimate lawsuits are being thrown out by the conservative judges his own team appointed due to lack of evidence, with the admitance of his lawyers that there were in fact GOP observers in the vote counts of every state contrary to what he claims. Bernie Sanders warned the public about this scenario All this is extremely dangerous however https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020-presidential-election/2020/11/7/21554114/trump-election-2020-voter-fraud-challenge-recount-biden?__twitter_impression=true

Thank you @Fighterfor the banner!

Hate to sound cynical, but Marie died 11 months ago and here's why...

Twitter? One day she's irrelevant desperately trying to get attention and another she's being cancelled... I mean-

No offence, but this trailer is just horrible. Not one part of it makes me want to see this recording.

First off, you can't just pluck something from 1960 and apply it to today's politics with no other statement. I'm sure in the 60's BIPOC were used by both sides as a political tool rather than actually having them be a part of the process. I would argue only Republicans continue to do it to this day. And yes, if you (not you specifically) chose to vote for Trump, you voted for him KNOWING he was hostile against large groups of people. That is inexcusable and un-American... and not debatable in my opinion. That is not "white saviourism", it's standing up for what's right.

yeah the amount of cold war propaganda boomers consumed and how they passed that down to their children, i always thought that was a big factor to all of this... explains why the same ideological shifts are happening across the western world I mean it's not real. It's just propaganda. It almost seemed like Trump had a plan for defeating Bernie and then just crossed his name and change it to Biden. He only had attacks about socialists and the radical left when Biden is anything but.

Hey I’ve had this debate with some progressives. Most liberals (even far left) don’t do that. Just like most Trump supporters are not uneducated rednecks waving their guns. But when people are blatantly left to die and go into bankruptcy while the top 1% makes billions there’s going be resistance.

From a European perspective, it is absolutely incomprehensible how one can come up with the socialist argument. It seems like they don’t even know what socialism is. Anything that doesn’t fit into the right-wing spectrum is immediately labeled as “socialist“. People should look up what socialism really means.

But Trump’s rhetoric is directly hindering equality and the progress of these groups. And he committed mass murder and economic disaster by managing this pandemic like one of his casinos. How can anyone ignore that and cast a ballot for him? Your avatar is a photo from the political segment of the Girlie Show. That segment promotes love, equality, science, kindness to one another. That’s the complete opposite of Trump politics. I’m sorry, but supporting Trump is just too problematic and people who do need to recalibrate before it’s too late.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with this thread at all. I don't come on here to talk or read about politics, certainly, not from far left, woke, cretins. I also do not support Joe Biden who is an IRA advocate, I've lived through IRA bombings but as long as you far left idiots on here are happy. This is a Madonna fansite, not a political arena, I'm sick of it. I won't be reading or replying to any comments on this crap thread. If I've offended anyone, I don't care, block me, ban me, I don't give a shit.

As a foreigner (who has lived in the US and has close family members living there and are voting americans) what i don't understand is the divide. This is not about Democrats VS Republicans this time, in a way this was a referendum about Trump and what Trump represents and stands for. So i understands Republicans being sad but bitter and angry ???? Are they Republicans or trumpists ? And if you are a trumpist how can you be a Madonna fan at the same (or any other progressive pop star) ? How can you support this man who is only in what he does for himself, who hates people ? I guess you have not been outside of the US for a while or never, the image of your country is super tarnished abroad. People are no longer looking at the US fondly. Trump destroyed all that and i wonder if Biden & Harris will manage to completly restore this. Something broke. All theses qanons acting like they are straight out of a South Park episode and ditto for the president made the US the laughing stock. Around the world people are not celebrating Biden, they are overjoyed Trump will soon be gone. This reaction should informyou aboutthe way YOU are viewed now. Excuse my french but for four years we looked at americans like they were stupid bufoons. And just, just regarding 2 things Trump being gone is a decent and wonderful thing : Children separated from their parents at the border and 200 000+ americans dead from covid because the president was too occupied by his campaign and went against what he personally believes to pander to his fanbase by constantly denying the great danger that this epidemic is. These two things are just the top of a very long list. and if you think Trump created jobs tyou are wrong, he benefited from a worldwide dynamic, employment was rising around the world before the epidemic and not because of Trump. The leader of the cult is out, time to detox.

Trump is just a bad loser at the end of the day - spouting all that bull shit about fake votes just because he feels he should have won ? Good riddance ?!!!

I think you guys read so much into things lmao

Let me tell you guys a story. I'm a Brazilian and that's gonna be a part of the story too. There's a Brazilian former model turned actress turned children's TV show hostess turned million-copies-sold children's music singer called Xuxa (who's in my avatar btw, you can pronounce her name as Shoosha). By the late 70s she had become a fairly famous model by doing our most popular magazines' covers of back then. When the 80s first arrived she started dating who's arguably our most famous person alive, former soccer player Pelé (she was 17/18 and he was in his 40s or something). She made it to the cover of our Playboy and its contemporaries and such. But, mind you, she DIDN'T work for children back then. They turned out to be some kind of an it couple. After doing some comedy movies, she was invited (allegedly by Pelé strongly reccomending her) to do a movie called Amor Estranho Amor (Love, Strange Love), which was directed by one Walter Hugo Khouri (an awarded and celebrated filmmaker and director) who made especially dramas, full of nudity dramas, of decadent societies and their hypocrisy. Somehow a blend between Emmanuelle and Bergman movies. In the movie she played the role of a minor who was sold to a brothel to be given as a gift to a politician. In the meantime, a 12-year old come to the house to spend two days with his mother, the house's most expensive hooker. He came just in time to be "deflowered" (I hate this term but there's room for it in the movie) by Xuxa's character (there's not consummation, though) and later by his own mother. I swear to god it was not a porn nor even a bad taste-history. It's much of an Oedipian drama indeed. Years later and being a low-budget children's TV show hostess, Xuxa goes to Globo, our biggest, most powerful and famous TV channels, earning millions a month and breaking records. She'd end up selling around 30 million records in a country that doesn't sell as much as the USA, for example. She was plain HUUUUUUUGE. Kind of our own Michael Jackson meets Madonna meets Marilyn meets Tinkerbell. Her peak was between 1986 and 2000. Mind you: we, in the 80s, had just regained our fragile democracy after 20+ years of dictatorship (which included torture, censorship and lots of deaths of innocents, including toddlers), so much of what she did was in the mainstream. The soap operas showed boobs with no restriction at 3 p.m., people used to bathe in small bikinis and trunks, our TV was unstoppable. And it somehow seemed not to warn nor bother many parents as it should have lol. She was and continue to be dragged by both critics, academics and even media vehicles for her past. Even after contributing positively for child's protection laws and increasing polio vaccination to 93% in a pre-internet era. She's also a vegan advocate. We've also been suffering from a neo-fascist wave by our own Latin Trump, Bolsonaro, whom Madonna has already fought against online. He's a horrible, horrible person. As a result of those years of unrestricted liberty, and ironically enough, there are people in the media who support him, carbon copies of worsened Geraldo Riveras of Brazil, who make pro-gun speeches, anti-communism speeches and most recently anti-Xuxa campaigns, after she released her memories and a children's book of a little angel called Maya who decides to come to Earth to be loved by a two-mom family. Adding to all the controversy she's been creating for nearly 40 years. My whole point is, I don't think you should judge a person's morals by fiction neither by what they might have done in their past. They might regret it or not, but I think we've been made to believe and buy into white men's policies and morals... and it ends up killing our own people... They already know who's the "enemy": the minorities.

I don’t trust Republicans and definitely trust Democrats even less but what has irritated me more during this election has been the death threats towards others across party lines. I’ve seen more of this from the Democrats. I expect Madonna to endorse whoever the democrat is. So no surprise there. She isn’t in the country all the time anyway. Love her though!

This speech. When a soon to be nation leader includes gay, trans, African American rights + in their first address I just... I’m so emotional. I’m so happy for this. ?

I agree with both comments and there was no way I was being manipulated when I was 14/15 but social media has made it easier for the young to be exploited, no matter how in control the person thinks they are.

But who's to say that there is anything wrong with that? If one has sex with a mentor, it is not automatically manipulation or one taking advantage of the other. it could be... but it's not automatically that.

It's already being sold on the dark net as we speak.

So now looking back, you feel all your encounters with older men were this? They were ALL predators? It seems like a big assumption of who they are/were based on one thing. i agree with almost everything else you wrote, but this seems off. and since when does your sexual partners age determine if you are capable of relating to your peers? No offense if this is your personal experience. But I had many a sex with older men when I was young and I don’t see it like this. (Except for one guy)

Next thread, this is the SEX book one

This is viral story in my country few days ago. Feminist group did start boycott to a online comic book and male writer because that comic book include monster villain character which abuse woman. They said that the writer has no gender sensitivity. So other writers and many readers stood by him. They said that their demands are ridiculous because that character is sociopath monster villain. And it's just fiction comic book. And if make a sociopath as a gentleman then how thriller novel, comic book and movies gonna work? But feminist group insist that whole character should respect woman. well, that poor writer eventually had to issue an official apology. And that scene was deleted. stupid people have a loud voice. And these stupid morons are rule the world right now.

I take it at face value. It is in a book clearly marked for adults only, with a disclaimer saying it was all afantasy, made up and definitely not real life. It's just one of the many erotic stories in the book. Nothing to get excited about.

I'm sorry, this is gonna sound harsh, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. First of all, the book isn't "more about the stories". That's like saying Secret Project Revolution was all about the music. And if you were soooo young in 2003 then I would imagine you were not even born when the SEX book was released. And it shows. She didn't get hate for the stories. She got hate because of misogynistic views of what is expected of a woman. and if you think Gaga doesn't already do everything the sex book did, you are lying to yourself. She's been naked in numerous ads for albums. She's able to do this BECAUSE of Madonna.

Janet Jackson was pointed at so often for being over sexual, in her performances, live etc Playing with male domination and being on charge. Top it up with the fuckit game they did to her on Superbowl and she didnt got a job again. Meanwhile Justin was cashing up with no struggle. Don't even started with Xtina, Britney and all the oversexualized teen artist that nobody want to see anymore once they become mum. What's ridiculous is that gay men that had been and still treated like shit by the same system. Have the same mentality and still sticking by this patriarchal construction that only benefits straight men. They idea of 'normal' sex as dick/hole penetration is archaic and ridiculous. Sexuality is an spectrum and there so many layers and dimensions to it. And everyone has their own patterns. Some people are not even into sex, and that's sex too.

I'm aware of Weber dodgy affair. We are not talking about him. We are talking about how male nudity is not depicted as sexual on those scenarios but female nudity is. So many of these photos were use for mainstream magazines and advertising with nobody even considering these guys were rubbing their dicks with a dog. My point is about nudity linked to sex and linked to perversion. If you see these images and think they are sweet, sexy, cute, strong.. but then see Madonna on similar display and say she is pushing for bestialism, you have double standards. Same with that text. If you are not even bother about so many male singers reffering to their baby girls, 'almost a woman' 'virgin alike' and sexualizing teenager girls in videos and pop culture. But however get all disturb about the insinuation of a teenager having sex with an older woman in some made up erotic compendium. You have double standards.

Fantasize, suggestiveness, reading, making up stories... this is art we're talking about.

The "for some fans the queen can do no wrong" type of narrative is usually being dragged out whenever one has no other constructive arguments left to present. It adds nothing to the discussion and it stifles it.

It's sad you feel this way. Repression of one's desires and needs is precisely what leads to deviant behaviour and usually increases the very fantasies one is trying to repress (source, source). The whole "Justify My Love" - SEX book era was Madonna fighting this very notion and it's truly depressing that her message was lost on some of her fans. Your thoughts aren't hurting anybody and to suggest they alone can lead to criminal behaviour is misguided and assumes one can't differentiate between right and wrong. Talking about these issues openly and honestly is the only way to process these things. Shame is always destructive.

The book displays all sexual fantasies that exist (sex with a younger boy, with a daddy, being rapped, bondage, zoofilia, golden showers, and on and on...). It doesn't mean M is into this or that, it just displays with artistic pictures all the sexual fantasies that do exist in this world, nothing more nothing less.