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On 1/14/2021 at 7:49 PM, eXtremeOccident said:

Honestly, I felt that way with the Rebel Heart Tour. There was a stark difference in the Madonna of 2012 and Madonna of 2015. Weird to see such a huge change in energy in just a three year time span. 

I've always felt like Rebel Heart and Madame X both came off as extremely unfinished tours in terms of the concept vs. execution. It's almost like they went into each tour with a bunch of ideas that just didn't work because of her stamina, so they stripped back a bunch of the concepts (e.g. Hold Tight, the drums, the S.E.X. video, scrapped choreography, all the Madame X rehearsal songs she ultimately left out, etc.) and were left with a bit of a rushed show. 

The reason was simple. Madonna stopped working out. So, her dancing on RH tour wasn't energetic and precise like on MDNA tour. That's why it looked odd when the dancers were doing some cool choreography and Madonna just stood there or did some simple moves. 

She could have kept going and been in a great shape, but at what point does she deserve to relax a bit? It was normal to slow things down a bit. She has other priorities too.

Although her "dancing" did affect the quality of RH tour, I think the bigger problem was its execution. Like you said, it was rushed and you can tell that (S.E.X. video being scrapped or it being a weird interlude for Latino section). 

Also, we shouldn't forget that everything behind the scene was a working process. So, Madonna rehearsing a certain song like Hold Tight that didn't make the show doesn't mean the tour was rushed. She did it before. She has rehearsed songs and then dropped them, because they didn't work. Anyway, apart from that, I agree the tour was rushed for other reasons.

I don't think Madame X was rushed. I assume she only wanted to include some other songs, which wasn't a big deal. Let's not forget this wasn't like previous tours. It was more like a cabaret show. There was less audience. Therefore, it didn't feature amazing visuals and expensive production.  The lighting was amazing and the close ups looked great and expansive. However, when you see the entire stage like during LAP, you realize the stage is empty and poor. But every performance wasn't like that. Some were richer, while the others were simple.

The show could have been better, though. Considering this wasn't a typical tour, it was ok. And let's not forget she served creativity and new ideas again. With each tour Madonna tries something different and that is great.

And most importantly, Madonna served during Madame X era. I used to think Madonna should deliver great visuals (videos) while she was younger, because she couldn't pull that off when she gets older. Who did expect such visuals from a woman who just turned 60? 

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Alright, so I'm not sure that cheesy would be the word to use. But I do believe she has relaxed certain qualities of who she used to be. But I also think she is in a different part of her career and life.  The Super Bowl performance was made to appeal to the audience of the Super Bowl. It was also basically the ONLY promotion she did and therefore I would argue ALOT was riding on it. No room for controversy or political statements. There wasn't time for a story ARC of dark to light, so ther

If she had become cheesy she would be very popular. Look at elton John and cher and even gaga, that's what they do basically. The problem with Madonna is that she never does what people expect of her, it does not mean that what she does is good, it's just that she does not behave the way social media imposes to people how to behave. She triggers uneasiness in people. That's the contrary of cheesy.

I don't think Madonna attitude had change much. She's getting older but she has been always a force with hints of narcissism. I think fans read it as cocky, strong woman , don't taking shit from anyone, stubborn. And she still is but now people are judging it because she suppose to turn into some nice grandma. Madonna from the 90s didn't have social media that's why she came out with 'In bed with Madonna' She always wore what she wanted, change her hair, do her own thing. I think right

You make a lot of great points and she ranges from very low budget, cheap, badly managed done with half a heart products, whether it’s photoshoots, performances or outfits and sometimes becoming flat out cringeworthy.

I know people change with time, but usually people strive to be better and her career from the first album till at least COADF and S&S and even MDNA Tour, she was such a perfectionist. After that, everything went downhill with terrible photoshoots and badly edited artworks, weird and random outfits, constant recreations of old look with a far lower budget and inspiration down to a flat out cringeworthy series of social media posts with the better half of Madame X tour being neither a big budget show or a hardcore fan focused theater tour, but rather a low budget “Madonna in your living room” type of low effort.

I mean I adore her and I always will, but I put a hell of a lot more effort in my Instagram stories than she does in her own commercially released material and I’m practically nobody compared to her. Like if I had her wealth and popularity, I’d have the best fashion houses, designers, photographers and make up artists dress me every day and give me a new photoshoot every weekend 🤣

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16 hours ago, Nobody Knows Me said:

As much as she hates the term, she’s a pop star at the end of the day, so there’s always going to be an element of cheese, and there has been since her debut. I don’t think she’s ever been that cheesy and I don’t really think it’s become more prominent overtime.   

'As much as she hates the term, she’s a pop star at the end of the day, so there’s always going to be an element of cheese, and there has been since her debut...' We agree

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On 1/13/2021 at 4:24 AM, cosmic.carlo said:

Someone said that "Get Together" did "damage"

Ummm, what the fuck? LMAO bro... how can you even lol.

The Hard Candy era hair, yes.

But "Get Together?"

Papi let it be known, and perhaps this is a chance for you to rediscover or re-eavaluate things, that "Get Together" has become and is one of Madonna's GREATEST SONGS. Ever. Perhaps one of the greatest dance pop songs ever created. One would be a total fool to disagree. Mmmmbye! 

 

 

"Get Together" is one of her finest moments ever. And it deserved a video that reflected that. Total missed opportunity in that respect. Still a tremendous song with a total non event for a video, no one in the general public remembers.

I have always said if "Get Together" and "Jump" had videos that were cohesive with "Hung Up" and "Sorry", they would have been much bigger. Confessions could have been turned into an incredible movie musical. Hopefully someone does it one day.

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On 1/10/2021 at 3:50 PM, Alibaba said:

I disagree wholeheartedly that any single one of your examples outshone Madonna’s output in the equivalent time period. I thoroughly enjoyed the Hard Candy, MDNA, Rebel Heart and Madame X albums. They are fundamentally Madonna albums to the core as far as I’m concerned. I think each era was handled masterfully and in conjunction with her expectations in spite of the many hurdles that stood in her path. Madonna is the quintessential modern artist. She does what she wants because she can, and because she believes she must. I love her sense of artistic responsibility. I find her courageously authentic. She doesn’t pander at all. She just believes in herself. That’s what a true artist does.

Congratulations Applause GIF

THANK YOU!!!  Finally, someone gets it.

The last four albums truly do have incredible music on them, and it's a real shame that so much of this work doesn't get the proper respect and credit it truly deserves, especially from some 'fans'. As someone who has consumed the pop music of the last 30 something years, and certainly seen what some of these acts of the last 10 to 15 years have put out, I will gladly take M's contemporary work any day over this other "stuff". Particularly from some of the obvious names previously mentioned in this thread, who, in my opinion, are nothing but derivative, glorified tribute acts to everything better that has come before in the last 30-something years. Thanks, but no thanks.

Not to mention her tours, that in the last decade are just as ambitious and artistically driven as they've ever been. I can't see any of these others continuing on as such, on that level, into their 40s, 50s, and 60s, while refusing to settle into nostalgia act territory. Let alone pulling back and reinventing once again in a theater format. Then there's her music video game that brought some of her strongest visual work she's done with just the last album alone. That doesn't touch on her tour visuals which are a work of art unto themselves. (Let alone conception, design, staging and choreography).

Sadly, I feel that she can't even catch a break with her own fanbase at times. And sadly, this 'third chapter' (and the incredible, unprecedented things it's bringing that you will NOT see from these others) won't truly be understood, nor appreciated, until many years from now. Such is life.

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Sometimes folks just may happen to have a perspective on something that is, dare I say, positive or affirming in nature, or that finds value or worth in something. That's not a crime, nor a shortcoming.

I also find the "sycophant" argument flawed, and really a form of unnecessary name-calling...and if we are encouraged to not engage in such at various boards from one side, then why is it ok for others to do it from the other end? There are plenty of folks who seem to find fault in damn near anything she does, and I suppose I could spend all day calling them 'Bitter Bettes' or something like that, but I choose not to. Instead I make the choice to focus and give credit to the things I do like and that I believe are done well, and give rational, sane criticism where it is appropriate.

I think we need to be careful at going down this road that if people like something, for whatever reason (simple or complex, intellectual or purely emotional), or find some sort of positive value or worth in something (whatever that may be), that that immediately is seen as some sort of intellectual/critical weakness or shortcoming on their part as a fan is just sad, unfair, and simply not true. We are all capable of "walking and chewing gum at the same time". Again, some of us may make a conscious choice to focus on the things we do enjoy and find value in, even if they're not perfect by any means. We are also more than capable of doing that while giving constructive criticism too.

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