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Okay, okay, I know, here me out -- I was watching the Super Bowl Performance and noticed how much she was making fake happy faces and trying to pander in ways she never used to do. The whole performance is filled with cringeworthy popular appeal cameos, such as Cee Lo and LMFAO. 

Then she did MDNA, where she started becoming corny about the whole "I'm the Queen" thing.

Then with Rebel Heart, she became very self-referential, between performances that were cookie cutter versions of old tours (Burning Up), becoming super self-referential (Bitch I'm Madonna), and overly gay Cher-like appeals to certain eras of her's (Holiday, Material Girl).

And finally, with Madame X, we almost got a parody version of how she used to reinvent herself -- Watered down performances of how she used to immerse herself in new lifestyles, moods, lyrics, sounds, etc. It was like a corporate copy of what you'd "expect" a Madonna record / promotion to look like today. And it didn't help things that she started to go Judy Garland-esque with monologues, 1-2-3-4 square dance choreography, and "I'm the Queen, motherfucker. Buy my pictures" performances on tour.

Now, she's smoking pot often with her new boyfriend, acting like Avril Lavigne with her punk rock pink hair half-assed rock star look, and going maskless to re-enforce her "royal" status.

So, again, my question is -- Did "Madonna" -- as in, the brand -- become cheesy? And is that why she just doesn't seem to have the general public appeal and respect that she used to inspire?

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Alright, so I'm not sure that cheesy would be the word to use. But I do believe she has relaxed certain qualities of who she used to be. But I also think she is in a different part of her career and life.  The Super Bowl performance was made to appeal to the audience of the Super Bowl. It was also basically the ONLY promotion she did and therefore I would argue ALOT was riding on it. No room for controversy or political statements. There wasn't time for a story ARC of dark to light, so ther

If she had become cheesy she would be very popular. Look at elton John and cher and even gaga, that's what they do basically. The problem with Madonna is that she never does what people expect of her, it does not mean that what she does is good, it's just that she does not behave the way social media imposes to people how to behave. She triggers uneasiness in people. That's the contrary of cheesy.

I don't think Madonna attitude had change much. She's getting older but she has been always a force with hints of narcissism. I think fans read it as cocky, strong woman , don't taking shit from anyone, stubborn. And she still is but now people are judging it because she suppose to turn into some nice grandma. Madonna from the 90s didn't have social media that's why she came out with 'In bed with Madonna' She always wore what she wanted, change her hair, do her own thing. I think right

Some interesting points - Yes I think that has something to do with why she has less general public appeal and less of a connection to her fans than she had previous to the last 10 years. It's like she such a different person/artist to the Madonna of 10 years ago,  The MDNA skincare commercials and endorsements were another turn off. 

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She's just changed. For better or for worse, we can't blame her for changing. It's what we all do. Sure I wish she was still the Blond Ambition-era Madonna who could do no wrong, but she's not that person anymore. I put most of the changes in her personality down to having children and spending all her time with them, some of it to age and some of it to divorce but we'll never know for sure. I'd rather she be herself even if it's cheesy than pretend to be something she's not.

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6 hours ago, eXtremeOccident said:

Okay, okay, I know, here me out -- I was watching the Super Bowl Performance and noticed how much she was making fake happy faces and trying to pander in ways she never used to do. The whole performance is filled with cringeworthy popular appeal cameos, such as Cee Lo and LMFAO. 

Then she did MDNA, where she started becoming corny about the whole "I'm the Queen" thing.

Then with Rebel Heart, she became very self-referential, between performances that were cookie cutter versions of old tours (Burning Up), becoming super self-referential (Bitch I'm Madonna), and overly gay Cher-like appeals to certain eras of her's (Holiday, Material Girl).

And finally, with Madame X, we almost got a parody version of how she used to reinvent herself -- Watered down performances of how she used to immerse herself in new lifestyles, moods, lyrics, sounds, etc. It was like a corporate copy of what you'd "expect" a Madonna record / promotion to look like today. And it didn't help things that she started to go Judy Garland-esque with monologues, 1-2-3-4 square dance choreography, and "I'm the Queen, motherfucker. Buy my pictures" performances on tour.

Now, she's smoking pot often with her new boyfriend, acting like Avril Lavigne with her punk rock pink hair half-assed rock star look, and going maskless to re-enforce her "royal" status.

So, again, my question is -- Did "Madonna" -- as in, the brand -- become cheesy? And is that why she just doesn't seem to have the general public appeal and respect that she used to inspire?

She didn't become anything in particular. It seems you just stopped liking her - or liking her as much as you did before. And that's OK, we all change. :)

I agree with you though there was a shift in 2013-2014 when she started looking at her past and referencing herself for the first time.

The Super Bowl "happy faces", while she was playing safe, no doubt, have always been there since "Holiday"! Part of her "making people happy" performance face:

1180159_1499200738699_500_285.jpg

Super Bowl was a huge celebration so she was playing that game.

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This is interesting. From my point of view, our relationship with the Hollywood world has changed for the worst: singers, actors and actresses are required to be pretty, cute, impeccable and with no strange ideas in their heads and obviously they must be our clowns, who are demanded to please everyone, without disctintion, even if this means they have to hide themselves. Social media gave us the illusion we can influence other lives, we can control the life of celebrities, because, as I wrote above, they are expected to be exactly what we want them to be. This is a form of slavery. Another thing is that we live in a world where everything must be perfect, no one is allowed to make mistakes or people will be ready to judge you and drag you, with no esitation, ferociously. I mean, we can disagree with what we see or listen to, but I've never seen this amount of toxicity about someone or something. It's clear that our society needs a scapegoat where we should be allowed to focus all our frustration on, but today it's too much. The "victim" of this toxic system won't escape this game unless she/he chooses to disappear from the scene (that's why I hate legacies acts, they're the most evident example of the moment when an artist decides to interrupt the game and resigne his/herself to the fate the society has reserved to his/her). This is a form of torture. I could enumerate lots of performances from current starlets that aren't worth the half of what her performances are worth, but people, since 1982, will still focus their fears, their anger on her and other ones. That's the game. But hey, younger generations are better than her: I'll never understand how people can find interesting current mainstream artists, they're the pale copies of who are actually derided because they're too old to offer something meaningful to this silly planet. I don't mean I don't like actual songs, but we can't pretend we have the new MJ or the new Madonna or the new Prince, they're on a league of their own. All this pamphlet didn't mean I like everything she did through her career, but it's a resigned observation of how we approach to other people.

P.S Form me her most cheesy moment is her Confessions era: you can't release Confessions on a Dancefloor after American Life, it's a crime. But, you know, you're only a clown in your fans' hands. After she gave the general public what they wanted form her, suddenly she was in the way and people turned their back to her, no matter what she has done in the last 15 years.

P.P.S I preferred when social networks didn't exist, when you could see you favorite artist only on the cover of a magazine and you could read their thoughts and inner feelings only in detailed interviews.

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9 hours ago, eXtremeOccident said:

Okay, okay, I know, here me out -- I was watching the Super Bowl Performance and noticed how much she was making fake happy faces and trying to pander in ways she never used to do. The whole performance is filled with cringeworthy popular appeal cameos, such as Cee Lo and LMFAO. 

Then she did MDNA, where she started becoming corny about the whole "I'm the Queen" thing.

Then with Rebel Heart, she became very self-referential, between performances that were cookie cutter versions of old tours (Burning Up), becoming super self-referential (Bitch I'm Madonna), and overly gay Cher-like appeals to certain eras of her's (Holiday, Material Girl).

And finally, with Madame X, we almost got a parody version of how she used to reinvent herself -- Watered down performances of how she used to immerse herself in new lifestyles, moods, lyrics, sounds, etc. It was like a corporate copy of what you'd "expect" a Madonna record / promotion to look like today. And it didn't help things that she started to go Judy Garland-esque with monologues, 1-2-3-4 square dance choreography, and "I'm the Queen, motherfucker. Buy my pictures" performances on tour.

Now, she's smoking pot often with her new boyfriend, acting like Avril Lavigne with her punk rock pink hair half-assed rock star look, and going maskless to re-enforce her "royal" status.

So, again, my question is -- Did "Madonna" -- as in, the brand -- become cheesy? And is that why she just doesn't seem to have the general public appeal and respect that she used to inspire?

She referred to herself as "The Queen" way before MDNA, just watch "I'm Going To Tell You A Secret". It's always done with a wink as far as I can tell but people may take it as they wish. She's been self-referential as far back as "Causing a Commotion", perhaps not as overtly as on Rebel Heart but it's there. Madame X Tour was the most beautiful show and my favourite time seeing her live - she never sounded better, she was vulnerable and more human than I've ever seen her and I feel incredibly lucky I was able to be there. I get that the show wasn't to everyone's liking but there certainly was nothing "cheesy" about it. :)

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hmmm
:thinker:

cheesy

 adjective

/ˈtʃiːzi/

(comparative cheesier, superlative cheesiest)

(informal) not very good or original, and without style, in a way that is embarrassing but funny

a cheesy horror movie

That’s the cheesiest chat-up line I’ve ever heard.

(informal) too emotional or romantic, in a way that is embarrassing

a cheesy love song

a cheesy romance novel

(of a smile) done in an exaggerated and probably not sincere way

She had a cheesy grin on her face.

smelling or tasting of cheese

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If you were a piece of cheese-a
You'd have me sitting on the loo
Everyone would come and see me
It'd be impossible to move 
Seems to me
That's what you are
A piece of cheese
Disguised as art
Parmesan or Roquefort
and I will not renounce all hope

She's changed with the times and the times are really pretty damn cheesy IMHO. 

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everyone to their opinion but i dont think shes changed at all. i have absolutely luved the last eras. superbowl was definitely not cheesy to me. Stars just arent on a pedestal like they used to be.  fame can be achieved with a tik tok video.  She has done things in the 80s. 90s, 2000's as well that didnt go over too well. Its just they fade with time.  She always stays true to herself whether people like it or not. 

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She essentially became a white Nicki Minaj in some respects, in the sense that she took the Queen title too seriously. I dunno if it's because she felt threatened by the newer pop girls or she just wanted to manipulate that angle for attention, but I feel that someone of her status didn't need to play the Queen of Pop card since it was already known that she had it since the 80's. 

Not to mention some of her questionable aesthetic choices like the grillz and booty enhancement, but that's another story that I'd rather not get into.

Quote

If she had become cheesy she would be very popular. Look at elton John and cher and even gaga, that's what they do basically. 

In what world are Elton and Cher popular though? I mean in terms of non-fans talking about them? Who even pays  Elton any mind these days aside from maybe a passing comment about his biopic from a couple years ago?

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Interesting points in a lot of posts, but it's interesting to see the use of the word slavery for people who are multimillionaires, which I have to disagree with - it's similar to Madonna saying she was raped when her demos leaked, we're talking that level of being out of touch.

Look, no one told me my back is gonna get fucked after years of programming, that was nowhere near the job description.  Similarly, if you wanna have hundreds of millions and be adored, you have to bear expectations of fans and take criticism with dignity. You can't have your cake and eat it too, then everyone would want to be a popstar... Of course, lesser or younger stars are in a more precarious position, both financially and mentally, but Madonna? Please. An Instagram comment won't kill her. Slavery my ass. 

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4 hours ago, Future Lover said:

Interesting points in a lot of posts, but it's interesting to see the use of the word slavery for people who are multimillionaires, which I have to disagree with - it's similar to Madonna saying she was raped when her demos leaked, we're talking that level of being out of touch.

Look, no one told me my back is gonna get fucked after years of programming, that was nowhere near the job description.  Similarly, if you wanna have hundreds of millions and be adored, you have to bear expectations of fans and take criticism with dignity. You can't have your cake and eat it too, then everyone would want to be a popstar... Of course, lesser or younger stars are in a more precarious position, both financially and mentally, but Madonna? Please. An Instagram comment won't kill her. Slavery my ass. 

 

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4 hours ago, Future Lover said:

Interesting points in a lot of posts, but it's interesting to see the use of the word slavery for people who are multimillionaires, which I have to disagree with - it's similar to Madonna saying she was raped when her demos leaked, we're talking that level of being out of touch.

But she had been raped in real life and she had her work stolen and leaked. Who are you to tell her how she should feel about it? 

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She’s just not good at not being number one anymore. That’s all. She’s not sure how to act now she isn’t front and centre. She used to get ALL the attention and the truth is many artists who looked up to her have emulated and improved on her shtick. Because of age , changing times and opinions and just the need for something new. 
She’s part of the establishment now and that’s never as exciting as the upstart new blood or someone in their imperial stage. So she tried to crash the party during other people’s imperial phases. 
It’s a little sad to be honest and I think that’s why she is viewed as non essential now. 

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@kesiakYep, but the experiences are on vastly different planes of trauma. One sets you back financially (I doubt she was really that involved other than picking the demos and changing the occasional word), the other scars you for life. You don't have to remind me she was raped, I'm as much of a fan as you are, and know the same facts. My heart goes out to her, but that experience doesn't mean she can use that word any way she likes. The same as that poster calling some things slavery and torture recklessly. 

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