Singles... if Erotica never received damage control treatment

[GhostOrchid 702]

We all know the brilliant Erotica album got a bit of damage control treatment by Warner Bros, who desperately tried to get it back on track commercially, and make some cash once the public turned against Madonna with the release of the lead single & video, Sex book and Body of Evidence movie. 

What do you think the singles and videos would have been, had it all gone according to the original plan? Here are my thoughts:

1. Erotica 

single and video (released as planned) >>> September '92

2. Deeper and Deeper

single and video (released as planned BUT earlier I think. they tried to make the people forget all about Erotica single as soon as possible- I think the originally planned date was about a month later) >>> December '92

3. Bad Girl / Fever (remixes)

single (released as planned, together with Fever remixes) BUT the video was supposed to be directed by Mark Romanek- as confirmed, who, the previous year directed K.D. Lang's Constant Craving, which Madonna loved, and was supposed to look similar to that one, kind of like the Secret video- b/w, smokey club performance. Instead, Warner opted for Michael Jackson-esque blockbuster video in style of "Who is it", also directed by Fincher who took over. All in effort to boost the MTV plays which declined with the previous 2 videos. Fever was supposed to remain only a club song >>> March '93

4. Waiting (feat. Everlast of House of Pain) / Bye Bye Baby (remixes)

This is where it gets interesting because this track was released as a b-side to Rain. House of Pain was the hottest band in the country at the time with "Jump Around" and Everlast was obviously recruited for a main single release (no way anybody would agree to a feature for a b-side). But Warner couldn't deal with another adult-themed song and lyrics (especially in Everlast's bit), so they pushed this one out. Instead, they got Daniel Abraham to remix 2 songs in more of a commercial pop style- "Fever" for video play (which was also not planned originally, and to try to capitalize from Fever remixes already being in stores and boost her MTV presence) and "Rain", for subsequent radio play and single release #4. Madonna obviously hated this decision because all this was in contrast to the image she was building for Erotica era, and she has largely ignored this song throughout her career, including this year when the single was released digitally and received ZERO mention on her IG, unlike all other digital releases >>> June '93

Bye Bye Baby remixes were obviously finished earlier and ready to be released, but I'm not sure if they were supposed to be the B-side of Waiting, or a separate 5th release to coincide with the tour. They were obviously cancelled in the US for not being commercial enough, because at that point Warner was trying to save a sinking ship and Madonna was no longer in control. 

So to summarize, in my opinion, the Erotica damage control consisted of: Bad Girl -Fincher video, Fever video, Rain single and video.

I could obviously be wrong, but this makes sense to me. Any thoughts?

 

[Prayer 14,361]

Was it damage control by Warner really? I remember reading some reviews saying the album didn't have obvious singles apart from "Deeper" and I somehow agree. It's a great album but didn't have the obvious commercial super smashes the previous ones had.

The 2nd single was supposed to be "Bad Girl" with a super sexually charged video, but "Deeper And Deeper" was rush released after the initial backlash of the album release and the book. They needed old pop commercial Madonna back in full mode... yet she chose to do a super arty video for it.

[Blue Jean 15,254]

I think if they were in damage control mode they would have released Rain right after Deeper and Deeper.

But even then she went ahead and did The Girlie Show which featured some of her raunchiest performances.

[Pootz333 2,691]

For an era that is considered a flop or whatever, it had great singles. Ballads and dance. Gorgeous videos. Great remixes. Looks for days. A great tour. SNL. All of it has aged well... except the writing of the Sex Book (the imagery is great) and Body of Evidence. My only music gripe is "Bye Bye Baby". A lot of fans seem to love it and the house remixes but I never clicked with any of them. I would have gone with "Thief of Hearts" or "Words". You would think that her VMA performance for that era would be notorious but it's mostly forgotten in the grand scheme of her other major moonman moments. 

[Blue Jean 15,254]

2 minutes ago, Pootz333 said:

For an era that is considered a flop or whatever, it had great singles. Ballads and dance. Gorgeous videos. Great remixes. Looks for days. A great tour. SNL. All of it has aged well... except the writing of the Sex Book (the imagery is great) and Body of Evidence. My only music gripe is "Bye Bye Baby". A lot of fans seem to love it and the house remixes but I never clicked with any of them. I would have gone with "Thief of Hearts" or "Words". You would think that her VMA performance for that era would be notorious but it's mostly forgotten in the grand scheme of her other major moonman moments. 

I think you’re right. Probably because it’s a song nobody knows/remembers. Imagine if she’d instead performed Fever from The Girlie Show at the VMA’s  Pretty sure they’d remember that one.

[Would You Like To Try 8,346]

For me the single run was perfect but the other ideas are so cool too

[PaperFaces 5,615]

"Why"s is So Hard" shouldve been the final single off of "Erotica".

[DiegoLCL 5,057]

I don't think things would be much different. Maybe if the album was more sucessful she would have been bolder and chosen a less commercial song as the final single but at the end of the day I'm pretty sure we would still have Deeper and Deeper and Rain as singles.

I never cared for Bye Bye Baby as single, such a silly song. It makes sense on the context of the album because it needs something lighter to balance it out but as a single? Up there with Dear Jessie as the worst choices up until the Interscope days for me. I don't care for the remixes either and the VMA performance is her most boring awards performance, and I like the performance on the tour but something was off that night.

[wtg1987 10,169]

Nothing wrong with most of the single choices imo but I never really liked fever ( the album version) the video version is much better - I also don’t think bye bye baby was not a strong enough single choice - rain should have been the second single but it’s all history now …

[Blue Jean 15,254]

What’s with all the Bye Bye Baby hate?

[thegoldencalf 12,581]

19 minutes ago, wtg1987 said:

Nothing wrong with most of the single choices imo but I never really liked fever ( the album version) the video version is much better - I also don’t think bye bye baby was not a strong enough single choice - rain should have been the second single but it’s all history now …

But the real question is, how do you feel about Edit Two of Fever?

[GhostOrchid 702]

1 hour ago, Blue Jean said:

I think if they were in damage control mode they would have released Rain right after Deeper and Deeper.

But even then she went ahead and did The Girlie Show which featured some of her raunchiest performances.

Yes well, with the tour it's a private show that you had to pay to get into, so understandably there would be no censoring there. Majority of people who paid to see the show already bought the album.

What the label tried to control were things that people were exposed to such as songs on the radio and videos on TV which are supposed to get you to buy the record.

As for the order of the singles and videos, the planning takes some time, so i guess she was still fighting strong in late '92, the first 2 singles were still top 10 hits, but as soon as Bad Girl flopped even with a blockbuster video they were like- step aside, we're in charge now.

[GhostOrchid 702]

1 hour ago, Prayer said:

Was it damage control by Warner really? I remember reading some reviews saying the album didn't have obvious singles apart from "Deeper" and I somehow agree. It's a great album but didn't have the obvious commercial super smashes the previous ones had.

The 2nd single was supposed to be "Bad Girl" with a super sexually charged video, but "Deeper And Deeper" was rush released after the initial backlash of the album release and the book. They needed old pop commercial Madonna back in full mode... yet she chose to do a super arty video for it.

It's possible that Bad Girl was supposed to be the 2nd single, i'm not sure though. Planning takes some time, with commissioning the video and remixes, so i imagine that was already in the works for D&D even before erotica single was released, or around that time. I could be wrong though.

I think 2 Madonna albums suffered damage control - Erotica and American Life

[GhostOrchid 702]

1 hour ago, PaperFaces said:

"Why"s is So Hard" shouldve been the final single off of "Erotica".

I can never get over that not happening.

[Donna 16,443]

There was no damage control going on with the Erotica album.  There were only a couple sexually charged songs on the album as it is.  The rest were pretty safe songs.  I believe the singles came along as always planned.  I don't believe Madonna stepped aside at all as well.  Though, the record company is and has always had a strong influence on what singles get released.  Still, I think Madonna always had the last say regarding the singles that were released on this album.  In many cases, the record companies tend to cancel follow up singles, either due to they don't want to put anymore into the album or they think it's ran its course. 

[GhostOrchid 702]

2 minutes ago, McDonna said:

There was no damage control going on with the Erotica album.  There were only a couple sexually charged songs on the album as it is.  The rest were pretty safe songs.  I believe the singles came along as always planned.  I don't believe Madonna stepped aside at all as well.  Though, the record company is and has always had a strong influence on what singles get released.  Still, I think Madonna always had the last say regarding the singles that were released on this album.  In many cases, the record companies tend to cancel follow up singles, either due to they don't want to put anymore into the album or they think it's ran its course. 

It's not only about being sexually charged, but they also needed to be commercially appealing and catchy. Therefore, Daniel Abraham was brought in to "fix" Fever and Rain.

Waiting feat. Everlast was probably planned as a single (imo). there is no reason to bring in a major artist at the time to duet for a b-side.

Madonna always has the last say as long as the sales targets are met. If not, the label steps in.

[Donna 16,443]

15 minutes ago, GhostOrchid said:

It's possible that Bad Girl was supposed to be the 2nd single, i'm not sure though. Planning takes some time, with commissioning the video and remixes, so i imagine that was already in the works for D&D even before erotica single was released, or around that time. I could be wrong though.

I think 2 Madonna albums suffered damage control - Erotica and American Life

There is no "possibly" to it.  Bad Girl was intended as the second single. Mark Romanek and Tim Burton were both approached to direct the Bad Girl video as well.  Madonnatribe also posted a leaked leaflet of the original Erotica track listing as well as explained how Bad Girl originally was going to be the second single:

http://www.madonnatribe.com/decade/2013/erotic-almost-2/

There was no damage control going on with the Erotica singles choices.

[thegoldencalf 12,581]

1 hour ago, Prayer said:

Was it damage control by Warner really? I remember reading some reviews saying the album didn't have obvious singles apart from "Deeper" and I somehow agree. It's a great album but didn't have the obvious commercial super smashes the previous ones had.

The 2nd single was supposed to be "Bad Girl" with a super sexually charged video, but "Deeper And Deeper" was rush released after the initial backlash of the album release and the book. They needed old pop commercial Madonna back in full mode... yet she chose to do a super arty video for it.

Didn’t Erotica the single have a great debut? 

[GhostOrchid 702]

1 minute ago, McDonna said:

There is no "possibly" to it.  Bad Girl was intended as the second single. Mark Romanek and Tim Burton were both approached to direct Bad Girl.  Madonnatribe also posted a leaked leaflet of the original track listing as well as explained how Bad Girl originally was going to be the second single:

http://www.madonnatribe.com/decade/2013/erotic-almost-2/

Thank you. I learn something new every day. 

This is also the evidence that damage control was indeed taking place and that singles were not going as planned.

[GhostOrchid 702]

2 minutes ago, thegoldencalf said:

Didn’t Erotica the single have a great debut? 

Yes well, everybody tuned in to see and hear the new Madonna, but this quickly faded away as it's not a song non-fans would play on repeat.

[Cyberraga 662]

2 minutes ago, thegoldencalf said:

Didn’t Erotica the single have a great debut? 

Yes it did.

Release time killed Erotica sales. The album should've been released BEFORE Sex book and before The Body of Evidence.

[deathproof 10,607]

1 hour ago, Blue Jean said:

I think if they were in damage control mode they would have released Rain right after Deeper and Deeper.

But even then she went ahead and did The Girlie Show which featured some of her raunchiest performances.

When the album came out, radio stations across the US had started to play Rain and Deeper and Deeper to appease listeners. A lot of comments from radio dj’s at the time was demand for more “traditional” sounding Madonna singles.

The label fed into the demand.

[Donna 16,443]

8 minutes ago, GhostOrchid said:

Thank you. I learn something new every day. 

This is also the evidence that damage control was indeed taking place and that singles were not going as planned.

I still don't believe this was due to WARNER taking over, trying to do damage control.  I think it just became a collective agreement to go with Deeper and Deeper to show there was traditional commercial pop on the album. 

[GhostOrchid 702]

Just now, Cyberraga said:

Yes it did.

Release time killed Erotica sales. The album should've been released BEFORE Sex book and before The Body of Evidence.

If only this was the order of releases, this would have been a smash album:

- Deeper and deeper, 1st single

- Erotica album

- Bad girl, 2nd single

- Erotica, 3rd single / Sex book / Body of evidence (all sexually themed, would serve as a great cross-promotion, to be released at the same time 3-4 months after the album which would give it time to kill it in sales)

[GhostOrchid 702]

3 minutes ago, McDonna said:

I still don't believe this was due to WARNER taking over, trying to do damage control.  I think it just became a collective agreement to go with Deeper and Deeper to show there was traditional commercial pop on the album. 

Damage control could also mean Madonna and Warner having sat at a table, like adults, and deciding how to change the course of action to meet sales targets. I don't know how these meetings look. Not like she was grounded and sent to her room. But I imagine they had the last say in what was happening in this particular case.