Madonna on Instagram / Facebook / Twitter + other Social Media

[Roland Barthes 5,292]

Can somebody share the piece published in the NYT about her new face being a brilliant provocation ? Please ? Thx. 

[MattyMads 4,939]

I thought we were going to stop the face talk hence why the Grammys thread was locked? 

[MAX_donna 236]

13 minutes ago, Roland Barthes said:

Quelqu’un peut-il partager l’article publié dans le NYT sur son nouveau visage comme étant une provocation brillante ? S’il vous plaît? Thx.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/08/opinion/madonna-grammys-2023.html

Edited February 8 by MAX_donna

[Ian 2,134]

5 minutes ago, Roland Barthes said:

Can somebody share the piece published in the NYT about her new face being a brilliant provocation ? Please ? Thx. 

"  With blond braids looped over her ears, dressed in a long black skirt and black jacket accessorized with a riding crop, one of the best-selling female recording artists of all time stepped into the spotlight at the 65th annual Grammy Awards Sunday night. Madonna was there to introduce Sam Smith and Kim Petras, a nonbinary performer and a trans woman. She began by referring to her four decades in the music industry, and praised the rebels “forging a new path and taking the heat for all of it.”

Was anyone listening?

Social media’s loudest roars weren’t about her speech, her longtime L.G.B.T.Q. advocacy or her upcoming world tour. They were about Madonna’s preternaturally smooth and extravagantly sculpted face.

All of Madonna’s features looked exaggerated, pushed and polished to an extreme. There was her forehead, smooth and gleaming as a porcelain bowl. Her eyebrows, bleached and plucked to near-invisibility. Her cheekbones, with deep hollows beneath them. The total effect was familiar, but more than slightly off.

People noticed.

“Madonna confuses fans over new face,” wrote The New York Post.

People posted her picture side by side with that of Jigsaw from “Saw,” or Janice from “The Muppet Show,” and made jokes about “Desperately Seeking Surgeon,” while extremely online plastic surgeons hastened to guess about exactly what procedures she had undergone.

Beyond the question of what she’d had done, however, lay the more interesting question of why she had done it. Did Madonna get sucked so deep into the vortex of beauty culture that she came out the other side? Had the pressure to appear younger somehow made her think she ought to look like some kind of excessively contoured baby?

Perhaps so, but I’d like to think that our era’s greatest chameleon, a woman who has always been intentional about her reinvention, was doing something slyer, more subversive, by serving us both a new — if not necessarily improved — face and a side of critique about the work of beauty, the inevitability of aging, and the impossible bind in which older female celebrities find themselves.
 

Throughout history, many aesthetic interventions were meant to be subtle, invisible, private, whether it was Cleopatra slipping off to bathe in donkey milk, Queen Elizabeth I patting a toxic mixture of vinegar and lead on her face, or a 1950s housewife discreetly touching up her grays. Does she or doesn’t she? Only her hairdresser knows for sure!

It wasn’t just hair dye. It was an entire industry, a panoply of things women wore and bought and did that no one was supposed to see or sense or know about. Corsets and underwire to snatch your waist and hoist your bosom. Cosmetics to conceal blemishes and blend seamlessly into your skin. And cosmetic surgery, nips and tucks that were meant to leave you looking like you just had great genes. To varying degrees it was artifice, smoke and mirrors and pretense; hours of labor and thousands of dollars, all meant to leave a woman looking effortlessly beautiful — like herself, only better. And, while there were exceptions — Marie Antoinette hairdos that defy gravity (and logic), Cardi B-esque Brazilian butt lifts that leave women with deliberately exaggerated silhouettes — for most women, for most of history, the watchwords have been subtlety, secrecy and shame.
 

Madonna has always had a complicated relationship to that approach. She has reinvented herself, over and over again, from her arrival on the New York City club scene in thrifted bustiers, fingerless lace gloves and crucifixes, to her ascension to Hollywood royalty in her Marilyn Monroe “Material Girl” look. There was androgynous Madonna, dominatrix Madonna, hippie kabbalah Madonna, designer-chic Madonna, retro-disco Madonna and Madonna as Madge, cosplaying landed gentry while she raised her family in the English countryside. And of course no outfit could be more memorable than the birthday suit she wore in Sex, the book-length photography project she undertook with Steven Meisel.

In the wake of the Grammys, people complain she no longer looks like Madonna, but which Madonna comes to mind? She’s been a blonde and a brunette, butch and high femme. She’s worn castoffs and couture. She’s adopted and abandoned an English accent. She’s shown us her roots and her underwear, deliberately putting the hidden parts on display. Every new version of Madonna was both a look and a commentary on looking, a statement about the artifice of beauty, and about her own right to set the terms by which she was seen.

“I have never apologized for any of the creative choices I have made nor the way that I look or dress and I’m not going to start,” she wrote on her Instagram on Tuesday. “I am happy to do the trailblazing so that all the women behind me can have an easier time in the years to come.”

The latest look is not altogether novel. Back in 2008, New York magazine declared: “Out with the gaunt and tight, in with the plump and juicy. There’s a new face in town — and it’s a baby’s.” The article’s prime example was Madonna herself, whose refurbished face it compared to a restuffed saddle. But fashion is fickle. In 2019, Elle reported that “toddler-round cheeks, tumescent pouts and immobile foreheads” were “officially over.” Last week, “The Cut” called it again, with a feature on how the “sexy baby” look died.

Is it possible that Madonna has been so blinkered by her fame and wealth that she’s lost the ability to see herself objectively, like Michael Jackson pursuing an ever-thinner nose or Jocelyn Wildenstein doing … whatever it was she was doing? Yes, but whatever her intentions, the superstar has gotten us talking about how good looks are subjective and how ageism is pervasive.

In the end, whether she meant to make a statement or just to look younger, better, “refreshed,” almost doesn’t matter. If beauty is a construct, Madonna’s the one who put its scaffolding on display.  "

[lalalagirl 34]

38 minutes ago, SecretProject said:

She’s being ripped apart in the witchesvspatriarchy community on Reddit. And it’s a bunch of people who don’t have the deep dive knowledge that we have of her just making shit up. It’s resorted to that. And truth always wins out. So I’m not worried about this crap anymore. People have their ignorant opinions and won’t budge. Even if they’re complete lies.  Even as far to say that she’s made anti lgbt comments. Like are you for real?!
 

I’m just going to look forward to the tour that I know she’ll slay. 

are there people who are a member of that community? the trafficking bullshit is OVER THE TOP. and what's with the fatphobia comments? because of that fan who got in shape in the 90s? he later said the story was invented by mtv (or whatever), to have an angle to it to make it interesting

 

I just cant believe how much the adoption lies and investigation bs is being spread.. it's NOT true. they often even talk about "her orphanage". she doesnt even have one!

[lalalagirl 34]

I cant take all this negativity anymore. Im just SO damn sad over this :( it's all so unfair as she's an amazing person and all these lies are spread and people just believe it while bullying her face, calling her awful.. I cant this this shit!

[Pootz333 2,353]

It's fascinating to me that the media and many of her own fans chalk the Mrs. Ritchie years up to "cosplay" or "an act". If you said that at the time or about any other era of hers, you'd get your ass handed to you. But it's just kind of generally accepted. 

I always looked at it as her genuinely trying to start over.

 

[chaosmen1984mk 592]

18 hours ago, PaperFaces said:

 

I support her message but women can be just as toxic as men

Definitely. Women can also be misogynistic and make fun of other women. For some reason the definition of the word misogynist does not distinguish genders: anyone can be. Just look at the comments on social networks where we see both men and women ridicule other women for their appearance or their way of thinking. That certain groups try to exclusively label men as misogynistic is something else, but fortunately we have plenty of examples in the real world to refute them.

18 hours ago, PaperFaces said:

One of the reasons Ive always related to her is because she could emote feeling and angst and fear and love and passion in her eyes, her face, her smile.

When I cant read those emotions on her face anymore, when I cant even tell if SHE feels her own music, then I disconnect and find it hard to re-connect to her and her music.

I understand your position because it is not only Madonna, many famous artists (MEN AND WOMEN), singers, actors and actresses who have succumbed to this fashion of using certain substances (I think it is botox) to delay the passage of time, but it seems to me that the time comes when the use of this substance gets out of hand and they end up reaching excess, altering that image. original that their fans adore so much that logically they end up baffled by the radical change of that star they admire so much. I admit that I am ignorant on the subject of botox, I do not know if after a certain time they will recover their original features, although I have seen cases of people who never recovered their original expression, but in the end that is the price that many celebrities pay to keep their youthful features. which unfortunately already have an expiration date.

[Roland Barthes 5,292]

Thank You @MAX_donna& @Ian

[lalalagirl 34]

Just saw the witches vs patriarchy again, with the posts of all that fake news about being "fatphobic", racist, a child abuser and all that crazy shit.. turns out it's made by the same person. he must be a very obsessed hater. cant believe all the upvotes he's getting! it's so obvious he has an obsession. again: any members here who can access that community and set the record straight? 

https://www.reddit.com/user/overnyte23/comments/

[chaosmen1984mk 592]

18 hours ago, Roland Barthes said:

You talk like she owes you something. Really, seek help. You don't realize how silly you sound. You're what ? A man in your forties i guess,  re-read what you wrote, you're not a teenager anymore. If you still don't find a problem with it then wait until tomorrow an re-re-read it. If you still don't find a problem with it then i'm gonna tell you exactly how your post reeks of male privilege. Like for example that part about women at the gym, you're not only justifying harassment but rape as well, they deserve it because of the way they dress. 

You don't deserve to be a Madonna fan. It's like you never got anything she ever said from the beginning. 

Speaking of coins look at yours. REALLY. LOOK. AT. YOURS. 

If you can't relate to someone because of the way they look then you never liked them in the first place and you are just a shallow person. Again. Re-read yourself in the morning or maybe later when you did a little soul searching and really measure what you said because you really sound like a bad person here. 

My God. How much aggressiveness in a single post. It seemed like the sermon of an exalted priest trying to convince some unwary to adhere to his doctrine. Breathing deeply before getting carried away by emotions is always good advice. Thank you.

[SecretProject 404]

2 minutes ago, chaosmen1984mk said:I admit that I am ignorant on the subject of botox, I do not know if after a certain time they will recover their original features, although I have seen cases of people who never recovered their original expression, but in the end that is the price that many celebrities pay to keep their youthful features. which unfortunately already have an expiration date.

I get Botox and my lady makes sure that I get the results I want without it being too much. I have very expressive eyebrows and I was worried I’d lose the ability to emote. No problems here. There is a way to get a smooth face without it being overdone. I’m also 35 and for the most part have very little wrinkles. My lady even laughed at me when I wanted to start. ‘What am I even going to do for you?!’ But she agreed that prevention is best. 

tbh I didn’t start doing it until my husband expressed interest in opening up his own clinic after grad school. I figured he better know what he’s going to be doing on people and in willing to be a Guinea pig. I like Botox because it fades after 6 months and you can get a touch up. But filler is the real issue. Your skin can be stretch so much that it can start to sag. And some filler you can’t dissolve. That’s what happened to Simon Cowell. He looks like a deflated balloon. I had to look him up after reading this thread. Haven’t kept up with him since the first American Idol, a show I never cared for. I did the cheek filler but I didn’t like it on me. That was about 6 months of a slight shelf on my face that made it more heart shaped. Didn’t hate it but…eh. However, I do love lip filler! Again, conservative is the way to go! I have a chronic medical condition that unfortunately made one side of my lip droop really bad. My lady told me that you can’t take anything out (like actual tissue) but can add filler. I love the final more symmetrical result. Big confidence boost for me. 

[SecretProject 404]

14 minutes ago, lalalagirl said:

Just saw the witches vs patriarchy again, with the posts of all that fake news about being "fatphobic", racist, a child abuser and all that crazy shit.. turns out it's made by the same person. he must be a very obsessed hater. cant believe all the upvotes he's getting! it's so obvious he has an obsession. again: any members here who can access that community and set the record straight? 

https://www.reddit.com/user/overnyte23/comments/

It’s no use and honestly just not worth it. You’ll get downvoted to oblivion and then your post is deleted. I just left the group. People will believe what they want to believe. For a community that preaches girl power, they really love to talk shit about Madonna. Coincidentally, it’s also their most active thread ever. Just proving the point that the patriarchy has most definitely influenced women to be awful to each other. I’ve never seen a thread so busy on there. And it’s a lot of Gen Z kids who have no idea her contributions. Which upsets me because for a generation so connected to tech, you’d think they might Google a little research. But no. Honestly, this whole thing just makes me laugh now. She appeared on a show for 2 minutes and the world is obsessed. Maybe not in the way we want but obsessed nonetheless. The rumors will always be there but truth will win out.
 

I cannot wait for this tour!

[lalalagirl 34]

2 minutes ago, SecretProject said:

It’s no use and honestly just not worth it. You’ll get downvoted to oblivion and then your post is deleted. I just left the group. People will believe what they want to believe. For a community that preaches girl power, they really love to talk shit about Madonna. Coincidentally, it’s also their most active thread ever. Just proving the point that the patriarchy has most definitely influenced women to be awful to each other. I’ve never seen a thread so busy on there. And it’s a lot of Gen Z kids who have no idea her contributions. Which upsets me because for a generation so connected to tech, you’d think they might Google a little research. But no. Honestly, this whole just makes me laugh now. She appeared on a show for 2 minutes and the world is obsessed. Maybe not in the way we want but obsessed nonetheless. I cannot wait for this tour!

Why not? just one comment? what he is doing is how lies are spread. Someone should call him out. I wish I could post there, but Im not part of the community

[Bjonkers 1,282]

20 minutes ago, lalalagirl said:

Just saw the witches vs patriarchy again, with the posts of all that fake news about being "fatphobic", racist, a child abuser and all that crazy shit.. turns out it's made by the same person. he must be a very obsessed hater. cant believe all the upvotes he's getting! it's so obvious he has an obsession. again: any members here who can access that community and set the record straight? 

https://www.reddit.com/user/overnyte23/comments/

Why are you spreading this garbage?????

[SecretProject 404]

5 minutes ago, lalalagirl said:

Why not? just one comment? what he is doing is how lies are spread. Someone should call him out. I wish I could post there, but Im not part of the community

Already tried.

[steady75 8,644]

I actually think the lions share of the discourse comes from women possibly. I would never encourage clicks on anything from the Daily Mail ( I know) but I did read Sarah Vines ( I know) column online somewhere because it made front page news here. I was expecting a diabolic rant of hate and bile....but most of the article is full of high praise for Madonna, her achievements and her forward thinking boundary breaking career. Cosmetic surgery is even given the thumbs up in some instances. 

I can't speak for women but from the outside there seems to be a sense that maybe women of Madonnas age or he early fan base feel a sense of betrayal. No other woman came through for them like Madonna had before and in some ways since. She kind of broke the glass ceiling and stuck two fingers up to the patriarchy and what old society expected of her, both men and women and the spectrum between and beyond. She set a new template for how women could act, be, express themselves which often defied traditional beauty standards. She was chubby, unshaved, had a mole, exposed her flesh with her own agency, played with gender roles, bisexuality and felt like the future and the right side of history. 

"She is wearing a mask of societies expectations - and it doesn't suit her."

"To see her re-defining herself along such limited and limiting lines, succumbing to the pressure to deny the passage of time and adhering to unrealistic beauty standards goes against everything this icon has ever stood for: freedom, defiance, individuality."

When Madonna has been the stick an entire generation (maybe two) have measured themselves by I think it's pretty much priced in that her image and choices in her later years will evoke a response particularly from women. Perhaps these women are saying to themselves  "what does that mean for the rest of us and our place in society?". Madonna has taught them, and most of us, how to question our place in society and challenge societal norms.

Throughout most of her interviews she has often responded with "Why not?" to interviewers questions, statements and commentaries on her personal life and her work. She seldom gives definitive answers but leaves the interviewer and audience questioning themselves...... so people did and people will continue to do so. 

The NYT article is an interesting take but I really don't think Madonna would really go down the Orlan Saint- Etienne route. It's most likely vanity. I will make one observation in regards to that article though. I do think the days of surgery that looks like you haven't had surgery are not an era we are currently living though. We are most definitely in an era of people having procedures that want people to know they've had work done. 

I fully respect people who fight the good fight and will always champion the libertarian agenda. However I do think some balance is needed ...and I'm not talking about her ass. Which I think we can all agree is ( regardless of personal choice), a curious aesthetic decision, but maybe even that tells us something and reinforced my previous point. I'd actually really love her to address it and talk about it, (of course she wont), but I'd be genuinely interested to hear her take on things. She's been so open about pretty much everything in the past, this last chapter seems incredibly shrouded almost like the elephant in the room that people can't see past. but like she said she's not gonna start now. 

I also think Sarah Vines statement in bold above is slightly contradictory in nature. Madonna 4.0 is obviously an uncomfortable incarnation for some but I understand we must learn to accept it even if we still have questions about it. There's no doubt the debate is fascinating. I defo preferred it when the conversation was about her work and not her "work" ....yet here I am.

This will be my closing statement on the subject.

 

 

Forum be like:

[chaosmen1984mk 592]

6 minutes ago, SecretProject said:

I get Botox and my lady makes sure that I get the results I want without it being too much. I have very expressive eyebrows and I was worried I’d lose the ability to emote. No problems here. There is a way to get a smooth face without it being overdone. I’m also 35 and for the most part have very little wrinkles. My lady even laughed at me when I wanted to start. ‘What am I even going to do for you?!’ But she agreed that prevention is best. 

tbh I didn’t start doing it until my husband expressed interest in opening up his own clinic after grad school. I figured he better know what he’s going to be doing on people and in willing to be a Guinea pig. I like Botox because it fades after 6 months and you can get a touch up. But filler is the real issue. Your skin can be stretch so much that it can start to sag. And some filler you can’t dissolve. That’s what happened to Simon Cowell. He looks like a deflated balloon. I had to look him up after reading this thread. Haven’t kept up with him since the first American Idol, a show I never cared for. I did the cheek filler but I didn’t like it on me. That was about 6 months of a slight shelf on my face that made it more heart shaped. Didn’t hate it but…eh. However, I do love lip filler! Again, conservative is the way to go! I have a chronic medical condition that unfortunately made one side of my lip droop really bad. My lady told me that you can’t take anything out (like actual tissue) but can add filler. I love the final more symmetrical result. Big confidence boost for me. 

If all the celebrities in Hollywood and around the world followed your example but many lose their compass like the case you mention of Simon Cowell that I just googled and he definitely changed radically. By the way, I don't know why but it made me want to listen to this beautiful song by Madonna: Human Nature. "Express yourself, Don't repress yourself ..." so difficult to apply today by the way.

[Shoful 8,295]

[lalalagirl 34]

32 minutes ago, Bjonkers said:

Why are you spreading this garbage?????

These things make me extremely sensitive. I noticed someone here mention the reddit topic, I searched it, and discovered most of the conspiracy comments (with a lot of upvotes) originate from the same hatere

33 minutes ago, SecretProject said:

Already tried.

I see. It's something. Most of the time madonna fans don't give a shit and don't even try to defend her. Thanks

[ScottyX 7,966]

This is nuts. And not the good kind.

[Robertthenurse 2,432]

37 minutes ago, lalalagirl said:

These things make me extremely sensitive. I noticed someone here mention the reddit topic, I searched it, and discovered most of the conspiracy comments (with a lot of upvotes) originate from the same hatere

I see. It's something. Most of the time madonna fans don't give a shit and don't even try to defend her. Thanks

Little hint...stop reading it 🤣🤣🤣

[Jackie 6,741]

It's a shame that her speech and her message was overshadowed by people's obsession over how she looks.  The bad lighting didn't help either - it was so dark on that stage!

In any case, she is right, I wouldn't have used the term patriarchy - but certainly societies, or some of societies expectations of how she should dress, act and speak are repressive.

It's nothing new - remember, the Girlie Show? The headlines where 'calm down grandma' and she was in her early 30's - by continuing to be provocative she's challenging the status quo of at 64, of you should have rollers in your hair, and be at home, knitting a throw for a grandchild's lounge. You aren't sexy, you can't talk about sex, and god forbid still be sexually provocative. 

 

[sara94 473]

If I was her, I would also be pissed. Like imagine being the Queen of Pop, the greatest female Artist of all time and one of the last true living legends alive and being mistreated like that. 

Like what the hell is going on?! Why is she being such a target rn?! Atp I think someone or a group wants to get rid off her or something. 

[SecretProject 404]

41 minutes ago, sara94 said:

 Atp I think someone or a group wants to get rid of her or something. 

That would be…

 

*checks notes

…almost everyone 😂 

Considering the current state of affairs in the US, with the alt right proud boys dickbags ramping up their ‘Gays are Groomers’ rhetoric and Madonna being a beacon and fighter LGBT rights, she’s an easy target. But that’s entering conspiracy territory. We don’t know. She’s always taken shit from the press. 
 

And I am 100% sure Bob the drag queen is not going to be the only queen on the tour. Violet Chachki was also in the Pride performance and at the Grammys for Unholy. The drag queens will absolutely make the conservative critics BIG MAD with all this hoopla over drag queen story hour.